Weekly News Update 8.21

 If you're listening to the latest Radcast news update, here's Ryan and Riley.
 Hey guys, what's up?
 It's Ryan, Alfred and Riley Clark.
 Welcome to the 817.
 That'll be August 17th weekly news here.
 It's, it's like, well, I guess I make them on Friday.
 So I do 821.
 The week of 817.
 Yes.
 Yeah.
 Okay.
 August 17th or the week ending August 21st.
 Exactly.
 Exactly.
 A whole week of news.
 Good to have you on as always, Riley.
 Yes.
 Thank you.
 Glad to be back.
 How's life?
 Life's pretty good.
 Nothing too crazy different, I guess.
 But just, I mean, I feel like the Radcast has been having a lot of stuff happening this weekend.
 Yeah.
 Just been catching up on a lot of stuff.
 But how's your week been?
 It's been good.
 Yeah.
 You know, it's been a normal week.
 It's been like, you're really normal.
 Like, there hasn't been, for good, better and different.
 There haven't been too many high highs or low lows.
 Okay.
 There's usually, you know, rowing and adding sheep.
 No, there's you about to drop.
 Yeah, like, you know, when you run a business and add agency, there's, you know, you're,
 you're putting out fires or creating new ones.
 Not a dust of fire rolling down the hill.
 Yeah.
 So, it's been pretty normal, you know, we've got a lot of website projects going on and
 some that I wish would kind of come to a conclusion, but websites are challenging and long and
 which is, you think you've got something figured out.
 You're like, oh, we could do this.
 And, you know, so it's been good.
 And it's just normal stuff around the off-road house.
 You know, the kids are somewhat going back to school.
 Yeah, how's that transition?
 So, are you like teacher?
 Are you in the call like teaching?
 Sometimes, you know, we have the modern Brady Bunch.
 So, we have my two boys half the time.
 So, when they're with us and, you know, no, they only have school one day a week and it starts
 next week.
 And so, we can't, yeah.
 And then, Nash is in preschool.
 So, he's back in preschool every day.
 And, you know, his school's been open all summer and they've been doing, they do mass with the
 teachers and everything.
 But, there's been no outbreaks.
 I mean, no teachers have gotten sick.
 There's been kids at school.
 I mean, you know, 300 kids in the preschool.
 They have to wear masks when they go to school.
 Not the kids.
 No, the kids wear a single mask.
 And they're all under the age of five, six.
 There's been no outbreaks.
 So, I think, you know, one school does not prove a point, but I think it shows that maybe
 kids don't transmit it as much because none of the teachers have gotten sick.
 That's interesting.
 Which you would think it'd be the opposite because aren't kids like super, you know?
 Oh, they're hands are in their mouths and touching each other.
 I mean, my mom's a teacher.
 So, any time she would come home sick, like we just knew, like everyone else is good at
 it, you know, because she brought something back from her kids.
 So, managing all that, but it's good.
 Looking forward to the week.
 I think we're going to do a little like day for the team here on Friday.
 Yeah.
 I think that'll be fun.
 That'll be fun.
 Yeah.
 Get on the boat.
 But, what's in the news this week?
 News this week.
 Well, I'll give my radical news first.
 I'm going to start our phone little segment.
 All right.
 So, Clarna, which is a Swedish company, they, I think this is so cool, by the way.
 I've seen other companies like take on this kind of idea, but they're doing live broadcasting
 events of concerts, but it's giving you a festival feel because a lot of festivals
 got canceled over the summer, you know, obviously because of COVID.
 So, Clarna is doing these whole online events, but what's really cool about them
 was there's also a chance for you to like learn how to do, it's interesting.
 Like, you learn how to glamp better, you know, like the glorified or not glorified.
 Glamour camping or whatever it's called, the glamping.
 Like, you know, learning how to do that and then there's step by step guide to
 festival.
 I make up and then, you know, you want to go outside, like there are things for outside,
 you know, you learn about your environment, things like that.
 So, super fun, kind of funky, interesting kind of things.
 And that's going to be live for four days on August 20th.
 So, starting tomorrow on Facebook and Instagram live.
 Are these replacing like Coachella's?
 See?
 Because at like Lala Paloza, that even still exists, but yeah, it's so fun.
 Coachella, don't they go to Coachella to drink their faces off and party and, you know,
 I've been to music festivals.
 I would argue probably drugs over the drinking.
 Pills being popular.
 Our people like in their New York, Chateau, you know, on, you know, 5th Avenue or, you know,
 in Tribeca or whatever.
 Yeah.
 And they're watching this on their laptop and popping pills.
 I mean, I would actually, that would be entertaining though.
 Like, starting tomorrow, I would just see people like just strung out in office places.
 And it's like, no, it's the festival man.
 Last night, yeah.
 Yeah, like we're just...
 Coachella alive.
 Yeah, no.
 Or mine.
 Clarna.
 Okay.
 But is that what we're talking about here?
 Clarnaville.
 It's what it's called.
 Clarnaville.
 Clarnaville events.
 All right.
 But I think it's interesting.
 Like, I think that kind of concept, because it's similar to like what's happening in Fortnite too,
 because you know, like Marshmallow had like a big concert in Fortnite and things like that.
 I think virtual concerts are going to become like more of a thing.
 Yeah.
 Like, you know what I mean?
 Like in a game or online or whatever it is.
 But I think that's interesting.
 And proceeds are going to musicians that have been affected during COVID,
 which I think is really sweet.
 You know, I always love that giving back circle.
 Yeah, because, you know, that is one of the things.
 Like, you know, freaking Dave Matthews and Marshmallow and Kanye and like the biggest, the big stars.
 Right.
 They're not that affected by this.
 They still have revenue streams.
 It's kind of that mid-tier that can't tour, that lives off of touring.
 I'm not going to try to name any of those names.
 But there's lots of them in every genre that lived and died or, you know, off of their income
 from live shows and merchandise and all those things.
 And that's kind of going away.
 Yeah, hopefully they're merchandised and affected as much.
 But as far as like the live stuff, obviously.
 If they had a good e-commerce store set up.
 There's a lot of them sell merchandise at the concerts.
 That's true.
 And some of them do.
 There's a lot of stuff that's, you know, I don't want to say cookie cutter.
 But if they're with a good label, they get a website with, you know, merchandising setup.
 Are you by on their Instagram or something like that?
 Yeah.
 What about you, what's your radical thing this week?
 Well, it's actually interesting.
 Because I was going through my feed on Instagram and I actually looked Instagram and Facebook.
 I found it ironic.
 So TikTok is advertising on my feeds as an agency owner who does digital marketing.
 Good targeting, by the way, but they're marketing their business ad manager.
 So, so they're marking to me to get my our clients on TikTok to advertise.
 And it's in my Facebook feed, they're running ads.
 And in my Instagram feed, literally, before we started this podcast,
 I had already had a Facebook ad and I was going to talk about their ad platform launching.
 So you're going to start seeing low in the hold.
 Yeah.
 All those great videos you thought you're going to see on TikTok without ads.
 No, it's coming.
 It's already here.
 Right.
 You're active on TikTok.
 But it's interesting that they're running ads on, you know, quasi competitive platforms.
 That is interesting.
 It's for their ad platform, which is actually getting pretty interesting.
 Josh, our digital media manager here at Radical and I were talking about it
 is we're starting to experiment with some of the brands we work with on the platform
 and looking at some of the targeting, which is both interesting and limited at the same time.
 Okay.
 And so, but at this thought, it was, it's not surprising, but it was just interesting.
 Kind of, I use the analogy of, if you were watching CBS and you saw a preview for NBC on it,
 a little bit.
 Right.
 Yeah.
 So, being an ad guy, I shouldn't be surprised by this because, again, it's smart.
 They're using the platforms where, you know, they're taking notes.
 Oh, okay.
 Not just kidding.
 Exactly.
 But it was still nonetheless, especially with Instagram watching Reels and everything.
 Yeah.
 Right.
 But again, in all my TikTok scrolling or swiping or tapping, more than anything,
 where you tap the next video, I've never seen Instagram ads.
 So, maybe in turn, you'll see such thing.
 So, twofold number one, the interesting nature of where they're going and the ability to market your brands on TikTok
 is kind of the macro news.
 But the more radical interesting news is Facebook and Instagram being the platforms
 which they market to people that would be likely to market there.
 Go figure.
 Yeah.
 That's kind of interesting.
 We can kind of get into that a little bit actually with one of the news pieces from this week.
 I feel like that's kind of a good segue.
 I know it's kind of out of order for what we talked about.
 But Oracle trying to buy TikTok versus Microsoft.
 Yeah.
 Interesting.
 I do think it's interesting that Facebook and Google don't get to have their hands in this because of the antitrust issues.
 Yeah.
 Isn't that interesting?
 Yeah, that's interesting.
 I mean, you know, the big, you know, it's so big.
 You know, Facebook bought Instagram.
 Well, I guess that's why.
 I guess that's why I thought that could have made sense.
 Yeah.
 I think they're going to, they're not going to let the big get even bigger at this stage.
 And what's interesting to me about that and look, I would still put Microsoft as the most likely destination
 if I was, you know, betting on these horses.
 But Oracle has never really been a consumer facing brand.
 They got their hands in so many different levels of software.
 I think of them again, back to the digital marketing realm.
 It's kind of being the platform for data management with consumer data and being able to do more highly targeted advertising through their platforms and through their connected data,
 which, you know, tells you more about consumers and their usage and things like that.
 Just to kind of, you know, I know we have a various levels of marketing people that listen to the podcast.
 Right.
 Both simplify it, but not, you know, seeing like I'm dumbing it down or something.
 But it's interesting because they've never, you know, Microsoft, you know, there's probably 10 products in this room that are consumer facing that consumers buy.
 And that you use.
 And so there's a somewhat of an obvious connection there for how they might, you know, move into this space.
 Oracle is just quite interesting.
 I don't know where they're.
 They're a cloud-based business.
 So, I mean, you know, they're one of the guys in the, and I was reading about was making a good point.
 It's like, this isn't even in their lane.
 No.
 But I think that's why Twitter was an interesting rival to Microsoft.
 But I think, I think of Microsoft gets it.
 It's going to give way more of a younger generation pool because they'll have more, I mean, they already did that with Xbox,
 but I think even more so with like TikTok, they'll be able to see way more what millennials and Gen Z are really doing.
 Yeah. It will definitely give them an eye into that.
 It will also give them a platform that will make it really interesting because again, Oracle has all these tools and data streams that feed into these platforms.
 And these arrangements or contracts or whatever you want to call them with the Facebooks of the world, the Googles of the world, all of those platforms kind of feed into their data cloud.
 And to have and own their own network, it would make TikTok potentially extremely powerful for the targeting and data capability.
 They would do because it would bring to them really, I mean, the market leader for the most part in that kind of data aggregation and how you can use it for targeting and different things like that.
 So in that instance, it would become extremely interesting.
 And maybe it's a test place for them for where to activate their data sets of different things, maybe before launching on other platforms.
 It'll be interesting. All of that all comes together.
 There are deadlines coming up though September 15th.
 Yeah.
 Trump's deadline.
 We'll see if that holds. I mean, you think it'll move.
 I think that I think it's highly likely that it will sell.
 I just think the pressure is going to be there.
 But if it goes past November and we have a new president, then you never know.
 Yeah, that's true.
 I don't think they really want to sell.
 No, I don't think they do either.
 But I think if they're forced to, and there's still be a, you know, I don't know that investments are 20 to 40 billion dollar payday.
 It's a pocket change.
 It's not like they're going to walk away empty handed, but it'll be interesting how it plays out.
 Yeah.
 Another news this week.
 Touchland is the speed to be whole deal with the sanitizers.
 Super, super sleek and sophisticated looking designs of sanitizers.
 What are your thoughts about that one?
 Well, here's where I find it interesting.
 They've launched a very consumer feeling looking e-commerce site.
 Yes.
 It's built on Shopify.
 They don't actually tell you that.
 I did a little bit of my own digging behind the site itself.
 And with some of our developer tools, you can tell what's built on, which makes sense.
 We're a Shopify partner.
 We recommend Shopify, whether it's B2B or consumer, so makes sense.
 But the interesting thing for me is as we've been working with more B2B brands and telling them and persuading them to get more in that, you know,
 thinking more like a D to C brand, like a direct consumer brand, it's interesting on two levels.
 One, the technology that they're touchlands using, which is using the Internet of Things to empower refills and different things.
 So you know, so you don't have to go by their physically, so the technology there.
 But then the platform and their way that they're selling direct to businesses through the e-commerce site
 is really on the forefront for what you're going to see with businesses.
 And it's certainly being amplified and accelerated by COVID.
 But it was really something that started to kind of move.
 And I think it will be interesting to watch how their growth goes.
 They're expecting 75% to 100% growth just in this channel.
 From the sanitizers.
 Yeah, just from the B2B site.
 And so they're working with some big names.
 Louis Vuitton, Target.
 Yeah.
 You know, you've heard of those guys.
 Right.
 No way.
 My wife.
 Yes, we're sure.
 I may or may not be getting one for her birthday.
 Four seasons, hotels, squares, Zuckerberg initiative, maybe you've heard of that last name.
 Google, Equinox Soul Cycle.
 Right.
 And just to name others.
 So already some huge names that are working directly, buying directly through the e-commerce channel.
 So again, I think you're going to start to see.
 And B2B deals are so much more complex, which is why it's e-commerce on this hasn't taken off for the most part.
 But it's interesting to see a product that's been heightened.
 I mean, don't get wrong.
 Hand sanitizer was imported in January.
 Right.
 But it's way more important.
 And it strikes me as one of those things that's not going to go away.
 I feel like we've all been, even when there's a vaccine or treatments and all this and everything seemingly back to air quote normal.
 I think everyone's going to have about more about like my mask.
 Yeah.
 Like anytime I'm going into a building anymore, I'm like, wait a minute, I don't have my mask.
 You know, it's like to think about those kinds of things.
 I mean, I think you're going to think about sanitizer always being on hand or things like that.
 And so they've got these sleek stations.
 You can brand them, but they're, you know, you might stand like really modern.
 Yeah.
 I'm going to link them in the episode notes by the way.
 And I hate to use the terminology that Apple sanitizer of sanitizer.
 Right.
 But it has that, you know, minimalistic but squared off basic look.
 And so very cool.
 And the e-commerce site is pretty slick.
 Went through it.
 Did some testing.
 It seems legit.
 I want to get some actually for radical.
 Yeah.
 I get it branded like our fist on it or something like that.
 Definitely.
 And be like, you know, you better use this.
 Right.
 Because it's so dirty here.
 Right.
 Yeah, we can.
 The implication is like, yeah, you better use this.
 Right.
 But no.
 Very interesting.
 Love the e-commerce site.
 Love where they're going to wreck to e-commerce for business to business marketing.
 Mm-hmm.
 Really interesting in place and line.
 And hoping actually maybe that you'll be able to convince someone from touch land to come on
 for the e-commerce series.
 Okay.
 Well, you know, I'll do a little.
 No pressure.
 Yeah, no pressure on my part.
 I'll do a little investigation.
 See what I can see.
 Who I can get on here.
 But I think it's what about.
 What about that transition though or transaction makes it so hard for B2B companies?
 It's the layers.
 So.
 Okay.
 Think about it from this standpoint.
 Okay.
 So like.
 I want to mug.
 I'm holding on my radcast message.
 Riley in the DMs and we'll send you on.
 Oh, yes.
 But my radcast tumbler here.
 You want a new tumbler.
 You go to Amazon.
 Mm-hmm.
 It's you only.
 You two clicks away and it's here to you about what two days later.
 Right.
 Super no friction there.
 Right.
 Right.
 You're the decision maker.
 You click the button.
 You're done.
 For businesses making purchases.
 There's usually three to five decision makers in large purchases for the company.
 Especially like think about a target.
 Oh, yeah.
 Yeah, there's a purchaser and things like that.
 But we're going to put these stations this brand in a thousand stores.
 The brand more than that.
 I don't know their exact footprint.
 Thousands of stores.
 Mm-hmm.
 I got to facilitate all of that.
 I've got to tell how many people do you have to communicate with to know that that we're going to commit to this price point.
 We're going to have these branded stations.
 Right.
 We're going to put them in these locations.
 Right.
 Think about the complexity of that.
 And so it's not, let me go to a website and push two buttons and it's here tomorrow.
 It's, how many do I need?
 Who needs to approve it?
 Who's going to design the covers for the mall?
 There's just a lot more depth to the decision making of every purchase for large B2B enterprise.
 Okay.
 Makes sense?
 Yeah, no, that makes sense.
 That makes sense.
 Okay, cool.
 But doesn't mean you can't do e-commerce.
 Right.
 Because at some point, it's clicked to buy, whether it's one unit or 5,000 units.
 Mm-hmm.
 And making that easy, making that simple, using B2C principles, I'm 100% in line with and we'll be talking a lot more about on the e-commerce series.
 Right, right, right, which is the next series, by the way.
 Yeah.
 And then as far as what's our other topic this week, ooh, let's talk about Amazon's business school.
 Yeah.
 Why do you think this is a good idea and why do you think this is a bad idea?
 Well, first of all, let me give it a little bit of background on what this is.
 So apparently a bunch of small business owners, this was their initiative because they were wanting more people to feel more qualified in a small business space with Amazon,
 like as, you know, their vendors or whatever.
 So the goal of this project, which I think started, I think, two years ago, and originally was supposed to start launching as a business school in February of this year, but I think with the nature of COVID, they just transferred everything online.
 Because they have a, which I'll also link this in the episode notes, by the way, but their business school now has just a bunch of virtual online, like webinars, basically.
 They haven't learned a bunch of things, but, you know, about small businesses, but it gives you credits towards community college.
 Yeah.
 It makes a lot of sense.
 Here's why it's good.
 A lot of, a lot of small business, small to medium businesses sell.
 We work with some of them.
 Thousands of, to millions of dollars, and they leverage the Amazon platform for which to do it.
 Right.
 A lot of them have zero marketing knowledge.
 They just know I have a good product.
 I've developed this product.
 I won't name names for clients that we work with, but, you know, you've developed product.
 You need somewhere to sell it, and you can't match the marketing dollars of Amazon.
 So you haven't invested, which I disagree.
 I'm going to talk on both sides here.
 Okay.
 You haven't invested in your own site.
 You haven't created a demand on your own platforms.
 And so you can take, headed there.
 Okay, okay.
 But so you can take your product, and you put it on Amazon.
 And Amazon, you know, already has built in hundreds of millions of users.
 Marketing dollars there.
 Yes, you still have to get in line, and there's tricks and different things.
 But they need to be educating their Amazon, recognizing, because they need these products.
 They've got to have products on their site.
 That's what makes it sell.
 They're the facilitator.
 They are making some of their own products, and now we'll get into that.
 But for the most part, they still rely heavily on those third parties to supply them with merchandise and stuff.
 So it makes a ton of sense.
 It does help these smaller businesses, which have limited marketing departments and limited knowledge on overall marketing learned.
 And it's a win-win for Amazon.
 And it's got some grant money and different things.
 So it makes a ton of sense.
 And if I'm selling primarily on Amazon, I'm all for it.
 How much education can I get? How much can I absorb?
 And how can I take my Amazon store sales even higher?
 Right.
 And market through the platform.
 And so it makes a ton of sense.
 The other side is we firmly suggest, and when we work with clients, we don't smack the hand that feeds us.
 We're not.
 That one's fighting with Amazon.
 I mean, it's, you know.
 Are you sure?
 But you need to build your own platform.
 And you need to be building your own customer base.
 Because ultimately, you want to manage the relationship with the customer.
 And you unfortunately don't do that for the most part through Amazon.
 You sell product.
 But you don't own the customer relationship for a lifetime value for additional added services for other things in that pipeline, in that journey, so to speak, with the customer.
 Because you don't get the customer data.
 They don't give it to you.
 They tell you who they tell you where to ship stuff to and they tell you not to contact them.
 And so that's interesting.
 Again, so again, totally recommend using Amazon as a place to sell.
 Right.
 But getting on your own platform as soon as possible.
 But it's interesting news.
 It makes sense for Amazon.
 It makes sense if you're a third party to leverage it as much as you can.
 But just know the deal of the devil you're making.
 I've said that on previous episodes.
 I was going to say, yeah, you love Amazon.
 I don't mind.
 I'm just a realist with business and for companies that we work with, I think it's just super important to own your own data, own your own store.
 Whether that's digital or storefront, like, you know, brick and mortar.
 And I think people get, and I don't get me wrong.
 It's feeding them.
 But it's cool aid that can turn sour.
 Because Amazon decides to do something else or changes their algorithm.
 And suddenly you're not selling as much.
 If you haven't built your own channels, your own customers, your own way to augment sales.
 Then you can be left in a bad position.
 That makes sense.
 Speaking of customer data.
 Let's transition a little bit to what's going on with some cookies with the third party cookies.
 The threat of it being banned and taken off of Google Chrome and a couple other places.
 Yeah. Well, that's coming.
 I think Google has said the end of 2021.
 Yeah.
 You know, we work with a lot of first party data, which puts us in a better position.
 Should this happen as an agency back to a little bit of discussion we were just having.
 But it's going to, it's going to cause some havoc.
 There's a couple companies that we actually work with that are actually on the forefront of this.
 One of the, I should say companies that I've worked with.
 One that we are working with, which is NewStar.
 And then Infutor, which is another company that I've worked with in the past.
 And in discussions with future relationships.
 A lot of which are around this, which they're in, these are data identity companies.
 These are companies that NewStar does a tons of things.
 But Infutor is primarily in the taking first party data.
 So let's say you have the name of a person.
 I have John Smith.
 And his address is 123 something.
 Okay.
 It's like an incomplete data fill.
 And so you know you've got John Smith.
 You got part of an email address.
 They append additional information to that record.
 What does that mean?
 Well, they use data sources that they have to look up.
 Okay, there's a John Smith.
 His email address is this.
 So add a phone number.
 They'll add an address.
 So they add information to that record, which empowers you as a marketer.
 Well, yeah.
 And again, it's first party data.
 And so it doesn't allow you or enable you to market to them illegally or in a bad way.
 But they do assist you with getting more accurate data for the first party record that you already have.
 No, that makes sense.
 That makes sense.
 But it's the third party cookies that are correct.
 Well, this is where, you know, I was explaining more of what the companies do.
 The third party cookies are what essentially enables better targeting on the digital ad platforms.
 You know, people think of it as the following you around the internet.
 But it's really more of making the more relevant to you.
 The personalization of data.
 If you've gone any sites now that either add your name or your location,
 which changes the experience on the website, those third party cookies that are on your browser,
 enable that more personalized custom experience.
 And there's the fight or the war or the ultimate.
 The end is the Apple has already banned them on Safari and Grums coming.
 And so you're going to see more and more of that where your data privacy is a concern.
 But it is a concern.
 But it's also there's this balance of finding and keeping content relevant versus keeping your data private.
 And so these two companies, NewStar and Infiatur are working not together,
 but in similar paths towards data and identity resolution in ways that doesn't use third party cookies.
 Okay. Okay. So what does that mean for small marketing firms?
 You know, smaller marketing firms through a party data being gone.
 It's going to hurt them as far as audience.
 It's going to, you're going to see a lot more.
 If nothing again, we've got, you know, 18 months or so before this hits absolute mainstream.
 But you're going to see less ability to target ads as relevantly as you'd like.
 And so it's going to make it less effective.
 We work with first party data for 90% of the clients that we work with.
 Right.
 And so which enables us, it will hurt in some ways with some of the retargeting different things we may want to do.
 But it won't hurt our ability to serve up relevant content to that first party data that we're ultimately after.
 And so for us, it's not a huge pack, but for more medium sized agencies, medium sized brands that are running some of their own campaigns.
 The targeting capability is going to be limited.
 But I'm highly, I'm glass half full on this that these companies that we named are going to come up with, you know, that identity resolution.
 And the ability to track user behavior and user data in a less, maybe I did it in a fine way so that we can continue to serve relevant ads without giving up maybe some of the privacy issues.
 Yeah, that makes sense.
 Do you feel like third party cookies are good though?
 Do you feel like they're a good thing?
 Or do you feel like they're a bad thing?
 I think that anything used in the right way is a good thing.
 Well, yes.
 I like tequila, you know, but man, it can make you sick.
 Yes.
 And you can become an alcoholic.
 Exactly.
 And third party cookies can be used in nefarious ways.
 And that's the issue at hand.
 Right.
 But it can also be used in ways to improve the relevancy and the experience that customers have or consumers have on the internet.
 So being a digital marketing agency owner, I lean towards the finding ways to use it in the right way, rather than it's really going away.
 Yeah, but it's going away.
 It has something changes, but I think we're going to find ways with which to do it that works out for both ends of it.
 How do you think that's going to play out?
 Do you think it's going to be more behavioral or do you think it's going to be more?
 I think you're going to see a combination of behavioral and the ability for persistent identity to be rare.
 I feel like I'm using like a science, you know, marketing journal of terminology here.
 Here we go.
 This is where the rat cast gets quite quite technical.
 But I do think that there's some really big smart companies that are working on this.
 And I think you're going to find a solution that works for both.
 No one's ever completely happy.
 I think in the short, long term, it's going to be a little wonky and not as is congealed as it is today.
 There's experiences, but I think long term we're going to come to some reckon, you know.
 Consumers, the reality is there's so much on the internet that we consume that's free.
 Because we're giving in like free news, free Facebook feeds, free Instagram feeds, all that stuff costs money.
 But the reason it's free is because there's advertising on it.
 Right.
 And the reason if you want that advertising to all become real bad, then let's make it really irrelevant to anything that you do.
 And that consumers aren't going to like that either.
 So do you want to pay for every bit of knowledge and information that you get?
 Or do you want it to be free?
 And when you do get ads, do you want them to be relevant?
 So you can have it either way.
 We can go to all paywalls.
 Every piece of content that you consume can be paid if you don't want ads.
 And if you want them to be crappy ads that have no relevance to what you do, then let's do this too.
 So there's going to be very fine line now.
 It is.
 And so consumers have shown there's been studies over and over again that they want the content to be free for the most part.
 Yeah.
 Unless it's super premium, super relevant content that we'll pay for it in a Netflix type environment.
 But generally speaking news and other information they're willing to accept and don't want to pay for it, they'd rather have the ad experience.
 So different than your old newspaper ads, you flip through them, there's ads in there.
 Right.
 And the reason it costs a quarter, the machine on the corner is because there's ads in it.
 Right.
 So different than now.
 Right.
 And so.
 But are you saying like hypothetically if Instagram started making you pay or you had to pay for a membership for your Instagram account for without ads?
 That's right.
 You might put pay $20 a month to use your Instagram.
 I don't think you're going to get to that.
 I don't.
 That seems a little to have no ads in it.
 That's what it might be more than that.
 You can say, well, I wouldn't pay for it.
 Well, then that's why you're going to get asked.
 Well, I was about to say that's how annoying YouTube is now.
 You know, like we talked about for a row.
 It is annoying, but at the same time, it looks for me.
 I feel like 80% of the ads in my Instagram feed, I might actually buy.
 You know, not that very moment, but they've got me dolled in.
 No, absolutely.
 Certain hats.
 Absolutely.
 Certain motivational shirts.
 No.
 For sure, for sure.
 You know, like some workout clothes or something.
 I'm like, okay, I'm not buying them now.
 Don't give me wrong.
 I'm a victim of when I see the ad, I go, oh, and then I do this.
 See more.
 And then I go.
 And then I go.
 And then I purchase.
 I am that person.
 But you know, it's just like the concept of it.
 That would be crazy to pay $20 for your Instagram account.
 But that's what people don't realize, like it's one of the other.
 That's the flip of it.
 And so one way or another, these companies make money to do what they do.
 And they're going to continue to make that money one way or another.
 So we'll see if we get a paid model.
 But that's where, you know, that's where there's been fights of if it was $20 a month to pay for it.
 And there's no ads, but you still had influencer marketing.
 So the influencers be paying Instagram.
 Like that's where it gets into like because they're using the platform to promote products and services,
 but in the natural feed.
 And that's why you've seen, you know, with the tools like Instagram,
 making you say whether it's an ad or not and that's what it gets down to.
 Now they haven't completely monetized that yet, but that's where that's getting into.
 In case they were to need to absolutely.
 I'm sure it's probably why they put that by the end of 21.
 There's actually no fine line.
 It's just, you know, that's the goal for all this to happen.
 Exactly.
 Yeah.
 Well, yeah, that's kind of our news this week.
 I guess as far as like the Radcast goes news, we're start last esports series on Tuesday.
 Super excited though for him.
 So that this is going to be a player and coach pro guy, his name.
 If you are a gamer, you will know him as fatal strike.
 If you were not a gamer, you know him as Joe Iaquinto.
 And he is, that was a great episode on super excited for that one.
 Joe was great.
 Yeah.
 I'm going to call him fatal strike though.
 Fatal strike.
 It does sound so much.
 Can you can we come up with a name for me like a bitter rival?
 I don't know.
 I'll think about it.
 I'll think about it.
 I don't know.
 I don't know.
 I'll be on the fly.
 Just call me Ryan.
 Yeah.
 But, you know, finally fatal strike.
 No fatal strike.
 Yeah.
 And then you do the bearded crew.
 And like, it makes me want to like not that I could ever.
 We might have to beat this out.
 But like Bitslap is like, you know, like could that be like?
 That's my new name.
 Bitslap.
 Oh my gosh.
 Yeah, we'll put that on your new highlight on your Instagram.
 I'm going to go well.
 My wife will love that.
 Oh, I'm sure she will.
 I'm sure she'll have words with you about it later.
 No.
 But yes, I'm super excited.
 That episode comes out on Tuesday.
 And then we'll start our e-commerce series after that.
 So we'll have a whole new look for everything.
 And we'll be getting out on a bunch of e-commerce episodes in the next couple of weeks.
 But as far as that goes, that's kind of like my broadcast news.
 Do you have anything else?
 I think that's it.
 I think that's the news for the weeks.
 Follow along at theradcast.com.
 Or at therad.cast on Instagram.
 Learn more there.
 And we'll see you next time.
 Have a great week.
 See you.