Episode 35 - The Other Side of Scripture: Reflections on Our Gnostic & Biblical Deep Dive

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Welcome to Spirit Outspoken, the podcast for Christians who are ready to explore the deeper side of faith.

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We believe God's truth is bigger than what we've been taught, and that real spirituality isn't something to fear, it's something to discover.

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Each week we open the space to explore miracles.

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Energy, healing consciousness and divine science all through the lens of a God who loves us, and a faith that's still unfolding.

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Whether you're deconstructing, rebuilding, or just feeling spiritually stuck, this is your place to reconnect with wonder, deepen your walk and let the spirit speak.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>Hello and welcome to this week's episode of Spirit Outspoken Rach and I, you guys, we have been like through the gauntlet, like we have had so many technical issues.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>We can't even tell you.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>I mean, we've lost like how many episodes Rachel?

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<v Jaisa Engasser>Four.

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<v Rachael Loney>four.

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<v Rachael Loney>Yeah.

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<v Rachael Loney>The hits just keep coming.

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<v Rachael Loney>I'm telling you.

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<v Rachael Loney>We're like, yeah,

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<v Jaisa Engasser>So this, it's fine.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>We're flowing.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>You know, we we're probably gonna be picking a different platform because we've had too many technical issues, but for now, we're just gonna be joining from Zoom because we have lots to say and

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<v Rachael Loney>yeah.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>a way to get it to you guys.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>Okay?

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<v Rachael Loney>We're determined.

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<v Rachael Loney>Yeah.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>really in this episode, I mean, Rachel and I just went on this journey that was sort of unexpected.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>We started with healing ancestral trauma and a lot of that, you know, led us down this path around.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>Healing female voices and what happened throughout generations and centuries.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>And as we always do on spirit outspoken, we tend to look at how Jesus would view some of the topics or perhaps like what his viewpoint would be on some of the topics that we're discussing.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>And that led us to how Jesus viewed and upheld women in the Bible.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>we have, you know, developed this awesome community, whether it's from guests that we've had on the show or people that are following us, and they give us amazing resources and ideas to explore.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>And Chelsea from Mana Temple, I.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>We had no idea the rabbit hole we were gonna go on.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>And like, I don't even, I don't even think she knew the rabbit hole she was gonna send this down, but she recommended a book that was all about uncovering the real Mary Magdalene and the divine feminine voice that got lost throughout, um, Christian history.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>So if you've been on this journey with us, you know that we went through healing ancestral trauma to what voices were lost throughout history to really like.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>How did the Bible come to be?

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<v Jaisa Engasser>If, if voices were lost, what happened?

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<v Jaisa Engasser>So all we're really gonna be doing in this episode is kind of reflecting on what does that mean for us now?

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<v Jaisa Engasser>Right?

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<v Jaisa Engasser>Because you guys we're, we're on this faith journey that is forever unfold, unfolding.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>There's never a destination and you're seeing this in real time.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>So we just kind of wanted to take some time and reflect on what this has meant for us.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>So maybe Rach, you know, we could start by just exploring.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>How this influences our or like the faith or the beliefs that we had through our life thus far.

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<v Rachael Loney>Yeah.

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<v Rachael Loney>Yeah.

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<v Rachael Loney>I don't think either one of us realized just how extensive this would get.

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<v Rachael Loney>And I'm sure our listeners are feeling the same if they've kept up with the episodes that, you know, we have this book called The Bible that many of us have, based our entire life around.

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<v Rachael Loney>And yet very few of us know really the true history behind it.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>Yeah.

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<v Rachael Loney>a little bit of background of how I was raised, um,'cause I think you and I, Jace have talked about before.

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<v Rachael Loney>Even though we were both Christian, I think that looked very different in the households we were raised in.

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<v Rachael Loney>So I grew up, I was part of the ELCA Lutheran church, um, very active in my church community, but very progressive I would say overall, you know, in that denomination like.

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<v Rachael Loney>Gay people are welcomed and can get married and be pastors.

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<v Rachael Loney>Um, but one of the biggest things I think in my spiritual upbringing that sticks with me is, you know, my mom is a teacher.

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<v Rachael Loney>And so one of the things that I just so value and appreciate about how she approached spirituality with me is that she welcomed my questions, you know, and.

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<v Rachael Loney>That combination of, of teaching and learning with spirituality was just instilled in me in such a young age.

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<v Rachael Loney>And anytime I had a question, I was never told, oh, we don't think that or That's wrong.

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<v Rachael Loney>It was almost like she would welcome my questions with more questions of like, well, what would that mean?

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<v Rachael Loney>Or have you researched that or, Hmm, that's an interesting point.

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<v Rachael Loney>Like maybe we should look at that together.

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<v Rachael Loney>And I really truly believe now that I know through astrology what my purpose is, right?

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<v Rachael Loney>It's to heal and then help others transform and heal and grow.

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<v Rachael Loney>I really believe that my mom was my mom for a reason, because she instilled that in me in such an early age of keep looking, keep seeking truth is important.

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<v Rachael Loney>We're welcome to explore and unfold and uncover what really is.

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<v Rachael Loney>Is truth and knowledge for us.

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<v Rachael Loney>And I just will forever be grateful of that.

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<v Rachael Loney>I just feel like it was so valuable.

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<v Rachael Loney>So I think for me, this wasn't like earth shattering, you know what I mean?

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<v Rachael Loney>Because I've always been invited and encouraged to question.

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<v Rachael Loney>So I think this was just more of that unfolding in my life.

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<v Rachael Loney>And even though I have learned a ton, um, I don't feel like it really shook me a whole lot.

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<v Rachael Loney>There's some things, the concept of sin is different, right?

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<v Rachael Loney>Like is sin just a separation from God or is it doing bad things?

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<v Rachael Loney>Like those are things that I'm still kind of noodling over.

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<v Rachael Loney>Was Jesus a blood sacrifice or you know, a wonderful teacher, like all these things, um, have me pondering, I guess, and noodling over some of these things.

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<v Rachael Loney>But they haven't really shook me.

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<v Rachael Loney>Any major way or made me feel like I'm losing faith in some way.

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<v Rachael Loney>Does that make sense?

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<v Jaisa Engasser>Totally.

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<v Rachael Loney>Yeah.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>And for what it's worth, I mean, I.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>I love how you're talking about how your mom raised you and how that has created a space for you to always explore.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>And I have shared, I did not grow up with a faith that was like that.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>For me it was, there was sort of one way to believe, and it wasn't that my parents, um, it was, it was sort of how they were taught to believe, right?

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<v Jaisa Engasser>So I don't, I don't

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<v Rachael Loney>Absolutely.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>from.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>My mom per se, but it was more so like questioning wasn't really welcomed because that really wasn't okay in the church.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>Right.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>It was very literal and um, I unlike you, was totally shook.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>Like I feel like for me this has been really eye-opening, but even more so really validating because I have started in the past five years.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>Trusting my experience and trusting my intuition when it comes to faith and not necessarily the rules and the regulations that I have have been raised to believe was how faith needs to be structured around.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>So.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>I had been doing that anyway, and I was sort of like, I don't really know what this means because I'm gonna be following my heart, but I don't know what this means for when people ask me like, are you Christian?

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<v Jaisa Engasser>It almost felt inauthentic to be like, yes, because the way that I've been taught to understand what Christian was, I was no longer identifying with,

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<v Rachael Loney>Mm-hmm.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>of From me, right, the Jesus that I felt in times of need, like getting on my knees and praying over my son's leukemia diagnosis and feeling Jesus's presence and knowing so clearly that it was love, complete unconditional safety.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>That experience to me was butting heads with, I don't know.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>I don't think Jesus would be okay with gay people.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>I don't know.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>I don't think Jesus would be okay with women speaking in the church.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>Right?

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<v Jaisa Engasser>Like it was like this version of Christianity that I just was having such a hard time reconciling with.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>So I was like, well, now what?

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<v Jaisa Engasser>Right?

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<v Rachael Loney>Yeah.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>is why this.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>Whole thing.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>This journey that you and I have been down on over the last like month and a half has been so revolutionary for me because not only is it changing me, but it's helping me really narrow down how I wanna raise my kids.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>Right,

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<v Rachael Loney>Yeah.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>what you said, You were really blessed to be raised with a teacher to, I like encourage you to ask questions and answer your questions by asking more questions, and that is such a powerful way to help guide people.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>And I see it in you as an adult, like as your friend.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>You have always made questions and exploration and alternative opinions and theories.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>and welcomed and, and you've never reacted in a strong way.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>And I, a, like, I see myself as a very opinionated person, but my perspectives are flexible.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>And like talking about astrology, that's all about Gemini.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>Like we are changing and thinking and learning and whatever.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>And like.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>I'm passionate about my viewpoints, but I'm always open about it.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>But it's like almost like my passion can almost lead people to be like, oh, well she may not feel like this is okay to think otherwise.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>And that's always like in our friendship, we talk about this like teacher student dynamic of Gemini and Sagittarius and I see it play out, especially in this now, right?

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<v Jaisa Engasser>How it's influenced me in terms of like how now I wanna raise my kids, I'll, I'll tell you a story.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>So just like two weeks ago, down this like Mary Magdalene path and I'm pissed and mad and like, uh, how unfair, how unjust that this woman that has such a gorgeous, beautiful, revolutionary teacher.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>That really turned out to be a partner with Christ.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>A leader of the apostles was slandered and her name dragged through the mud as this like repentant prostitute.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>It like couldn't have been further from the truth.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>Right?

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<v Jaisa Engasser>And like I firmly believe that, you know, it was an accident that they said that, but I don't believe that.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>I believe that they were like, oh no.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>As soon as people understand the truth about Mary Magdalene, this will change everything.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>And it has, it's changed everything for me.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>So I

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<v Rachael Loney>Yeah.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>this with my oldest son and he's been very into like ancient aliens and watching all these documentaries of me.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>He's

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<v Rachael Loney>Yeah,

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<v Jaisa Engasser>And like you were talking with him at the pool yesterday.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>He's an interesting kid to

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<v Rachael Loney>he is like an old sweet soul.

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<v Rachael Loney>He really is.

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<v Rachael Loney>Yeah.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>is.

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<v Rachael Loney>Yeah.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>to and he asks great questions.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>So.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>so we were watching all these documentaries and I was like, do you wanna watch a documentary about Mary Magdalene?

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<v Jaisa Engasser>And he, he said, sure.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>I said, what do you know about Mary Magdalene?

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<v Jaisa Engasser>He was like, I don't, I don't know.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>About her, but I don't really know who she is at all.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>So we watched this documentary and I searched four kids because, you know, the

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<v Rachael Loney>Yeah.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>like a horror movie,

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<v Rachael Loney>Yeah, yeah.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>Dungeons and Dragons and like death, right?

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<v Jaisa Engasser>So.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>I searched it.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>And what did they, what was this documentary?

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<v Jaisa Engasser>It outlined Mary Magdalene as a prostitute.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>Ah.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>And it was recently made despite the fact that the church, I was like either a 1960s

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<v Rachael Loney>was in the, yeah.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>made an announcement that she was indeed never a prostitute.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>Not a prostitute yet.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>A very prominent figure.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>Right.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>But here we are still perpetuating this lie.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>So I put on the documentary and, um, we go through this and I, I got really, really upset.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>So I like threw the remote on the couch and I was like, this is not true.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>So then I found like an actual documentary, an adult documentary that went through it and we watched it together.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>at the end I see him just sort of like thinking I'm really in his head.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>And I said, okay, what, what are you thinking about?

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<v Jaisa Engasser>And he said, well, do we know any of it's true?

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<v Jaisa Engasser>I said, well, like, what do you mean?

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<v Jaisa Engasser>He goes, well, what if, what if Jesus didn't rise after death?

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<v Jaisa Engasser>What if, you know, Mary wasn't a virgin?

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<v Jaisa Engasser>Right?

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<v Jaisa Engasser>Like, he's kind of like going through all of these different like weights,

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<v Rachael Loney>Really big, deep questions.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>deep

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<v Rachael Loney>Yeah.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>and these really big immaculate things and these miraculous things surrounding Christ like.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>What if those aren't true?

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<v Jaisa Engasser>And I was tempted to give him my perspective on like, well, I believe that Jesus rose from the dead, right?

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<v Jaisa Engasser>Like, I believe that.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>But I stopped and I waited a second and I said, instead, and this is like learning as a parent.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>I said, how would your opinion or your relationship with Jesus change those things weren't true?

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<v Jaisa Engasser>And he stopped and he said it wouldn't.

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<v Rachael Loney>Yeah.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>change.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>I got really excited in that moment because I realized that my goal as a parent now is to.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>Definitely teach my children about faith and teach my kids about the empowering word of God for sure.

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<v Rachael Loney>Yeah.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>it's more important for me now to help raise critical thinkers because I believe if they find a faith that they personally really identify with, that will be something that they can build off of, they can trust, they can go back to and return to and continue to grow.

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<v Jaisa Engasser>Because listen, Faith is personal.

00:15:21.412 --> 00:15:45.532
<v Jaisa Engasser>You know, it's a personal experience and the way in which you look at life and the way that your experience have been shaped and the things that you will go through and endure as a human being in this lifetime is going to dictate what your relationship with God in Jesus looks like, and I don't want to influence that in a way that limits their ability to believe.

00:15:46.162 --> 00:15:46.581
<v Rachael Loney>Yeah.

00:15:46.732 --> 00:15:47.842
<v Rachael Loney>That's so beautiful, Jace.

00:15:47.842 --> 00:15:54.052
<v Rachael Loney>And when you were saying that, I was thinking too, like so often as parents, we feel like it's our job.

00:15:54.397 --> 00:16:02.627
<v Rachael Loney>To somehow make them believe or instill this in them and it's like, why don't we just get outta the way and let Jesus do the work?

00:16:02.807 --> 00:16:05.657
<v Rachael Loney>Because the reality is they're his children.

00:16:05.956 --> 00:16:07.517
<v Rachael Loney>He will communicate to them.

00:16:07.517 --> 00:16:16.247
<v Rachael Loney>I believe God talks to each of us in a way that resonates just as I might have different relationships in ways that I communicate with different friends.

00:16:16.307 --> 00:16:18.677
<v Rachael Loney>And it doesn't mean that one is over the other.

00:16:18.677 --> 00:16:22.067
<v Rachael Loney>It's just like I know amongst people I love like.

00:16:22.297 --> 00:16:28.897
<v Rachael Loney>Someone might be a really good listener or someone is, you know, just fun and spirited.

00:16:28.897 --> 00:16:34.027
<v Rachael Loney>And another one is really good when I need like a pep talk or you know, like to bring me down to earth.

00:16:34.027 --> 00:16:39.937
<v Rachael Loney>And we relate differently to different people based on who they are as an individual.

00:16:39.937 --> 00:16:42.397
<v Rachael Loney>And I think Jesus and God does the same thing.

00:16:42.397 --> 00:16:48.967
<v Rachael Loney>And so often we step in the middle of that and we meddle with it, like allow them to do the work.

00:16:49.147 --> 00:16:50.857
<v Rachael Loney>You know, there is no.

00:16:51.737 --> 00:16:55.157
<v Rachael Loney>Question too big or bad or wrong.

00:16:55.157 --> 00:17:01.877
<v Rachael Loney>And you know, I, I am like you, I'm learning what's the best way to do this with my kids?

00:17:01.877 --> 00:17:08.926
<v Rachael Loney>And like you've touched on, I'm doing a lot more of asking of questions when they have a question to get them thinking.

00:17:08.987 --> 00:17:16.547
<v Rachael Loney>And honestly just praying more that Jesus would talk to them in a way that resonates with them and make his presence known, you know?

00:17:16.727 --> 00:17:18.257
<v Jaisa Engasser>such a good, that's such a good point, Rach.

00:17:18.287 --> 00:17:22.936
<v Jaisa Engasser>'cause like, I'm just thinking about like my two oldest kids and they're so different.

00:17:22.936 --> 00:17:23.206
<v Jaisa Engasser>They're

00:17:23.237 --> 00:17:23.987
<v Rachael Loney>Yes.

00:17:24.106 --> 00:17:25.007
<v Jaisa Engasser>like night and day.

00:17:25.217 --> 00:17:33.527
<v Jaisa Engasser>My oldest loves tradition, loves reverence like Catholicism and like the, the steps in which.

00:17:33.916 --> 00:17:42.946
<v Jaisa Engasser>He goes through mass, you know, that really connects with him and you know, he's an old soul and he likes that matter of tradition.

00:17:43.186 --> 00:17:43.696
<v Rachael Loney>Yeah.

00:17:43.727 --> 00:17:46.787
<v Jaisa Engasser>second oldest is like, dude, I don't know.

00:17:46.787 --> 00:17:50.356
<v Jaisa Engasser>I mean, I, I I laugh at like.

00:17:51.136 --> 00:17:58.606
<v Jaisa Engasser>talk about angels with my oldest, and he's always, he says fantasies, but with like a list, like you guys are just talking fan thief, you know?

00:17:58.606 --> 00:18:01.067
<v Jaisa Engasser>And I'm like, all right, well that doesn't connect with him.

00:18:01.067 --> 00:18:05.267
<v Jaisa Engasser>You know, like, but I have found that he really connects with.

00:18:05.626 --> 00:18:07.696
<v Jaisa Engasser>Meditation before bed.

00:18:08.237 --> 00:18:12.287
<v Jaisa Engasser>He, um, sometimes is open to me praying with him.

00:18:13.696 --> 00:18:20.807
<v Jaisa Engasser>uh, you know, is really fascinated by the stories in the Bible and he's learning through.

00:18:21.886 --> 00:18:22.717
<v Jaisa Engasser>Parable yeah.

00:18:22.717 --> 00:18:23.436
<v Jaisa Engasser>Like stories

00:18:23.541 --> 00:18:24.112
<v Rachael Loney>Stories.

00:18:24.112 --> 00:18:24.711
<v Rachael Loney>Yeah.

00:18:24.787 --> 00:18:26.106
<v Jaisa Engasser>that really connects with him.

00:18:26.376 --> 00:18:33.457
<v Jaisa Engasser>So just being open to exactly what you're saying, every single person is going to connect with Jesus in their own way.

00:18:33.697 --> 00:18:39.876
<v Jaisa Engasser>And all we have to do is like, help our kids make room in their heart for Jesus to speak with them.

00:18:39.876 --> 00:18:40.086
<v Jaisa Engasser>And

00:18:40.352 --> 00:18:40.592
<v Rachael Loney>Yeah.

00:18:40.782 --> 00:18:44.862
<v Jaisa Engasser>am convinced wholeheartedly, Jesus will find a way to connect.

00:18:45.102 --> 00:18:53.172
<v Jaisa Engasser>We just have to be able to teach them open-mindedness and trust their instinct and their intuition because you know, let God do the rest.

00:18:53.172 --> 00:18:53.922
<v Jaisa Engasser>Because who are

00:18:54.037 --> 00:18:54.096
<v Rachael Loney>Yeah.

00:18:54.582 --> 00:18:56.532
<v Jaisa Engasser>to say this is how you need to learn.

00:18:56.532 --> 00:19:03.612
<v Jaisa Engasser>I mean, I think back's like what we learned too, which was really surprising in the very, very first early days of Christianity.

00:19:03.731 --> 00:19:05.741
<v Jaisa Engasser>There was not one school of thought.

00:19:06.067 --> 00:19:06.667
<v Rachael Loney>No.

00:19:07.062 --> 00:19:07.211
<v Jaisa Engasser>Think

00:19:07.326 --> 00:19:07.626
<v Rachael Loney>Yeah.

00:19:07.961 --> 00:19:09.312
<v Jaisa Engasser>right after.

00:19:09.787 --> 00:19:19.386
<v Jaisa Engasser>Jesus Rose and left Earth, dozens, perhaps hundreds of different interpretations of his teachings and different schools of thought.

00:19:19.567 --> 00:19:23.497
<v Jaisa Engasser>Some were more feminine based, some were more hierarchical.

00:19:23.557 --> 00:19:27.366
<v Jaisa Engasser>Some were more rooted in Jewish tradition and law, right?

00:19:27.417 --> 00:19:34.106
<v Jaisa Engasser>If Jesus had such a strong stern opinion of how people should learn and grow and practice their faith.

00:19:34.481 --> 00:19:37.542
<v Jaisa Engasser>He would've let that be known right away.

00:19:37.751 --> 00:19:38.231
<v Jaisa Engasser>It's,

00:19:38.251 --> 00:19:39.692
<v Rachael Loney>so true, Jace?

00:19:39.721 --> 00:19:40.052
<v Rachael Loney>Yes.

00:19:40.062 --> 00:19:51.042
<v Jaisa Engasser>like the, or like the time, like think about recency bias, like whatever happens recently is typically what people go off of and like, that's not what happened.

00:19:51.552 --> 00:19:51.792
<v Rachael Loney>Yeah.

00:19:52.032 --> 00:19:53.592
<v Jaisa Engasser>having this diverse thought.

00:19:54.687 --> 00:19:59.636
<v Jaisa Engasser>open to interpretation of what, how Jesus is really speaking to us as individuals is really cool.

00:19:59.636 --> 00:20:05.277
<v Jaisa Engasser>And I have learned so much more about people just sharing like, Hey, I read this scripture and this is how I interpreted it.

00:20:05.277 --> 00:20:08.187
<v Jaisa Engasser>I'm like, huh, that's super thought provoking.

00:20:08.636 --> 00:20:09.116
<v Jaisa Engasser>I may

00:20:09.207 --> 00:20:09.267
<v Rachael Loney>Yeah.

00:20:09.386 --> 00:20:10.376
<v Jaisa Engasser>a different opinion.

00:20:11.067 --> 00:20:12.116
<v Jaisa Engasser>Who cares?

00:20:12.447 --> 00:20:13.167
<v Rachael Loney>Yes.

00:20:13.497 --> 00:20:14.217
<v Jaisa Engasser>matter.

00:20:14.307 --> 00:20:18.177
<v Jaisa Engasser>But it's just thought provoking and it makes you think, you know, I don't know.

00:20:18.356 --> 00:20:18.507
<v Jaisa Engasser>I'm

00:20:18.567 --> 00:20:19.106
<v Rachael Loney>Yeah,

00:20:19.106 --> 00:20:20.366
<v Jaisa Engasser>energized by all of this.

00:20:20.727 --> 00:20:21.447
<v Rachael Loney>I am too.

00:20:21.477 --> 00:20:24.567
<v Rachael Loney>And I just think it goes back to Jesus meets us where we are.

00:20:24.567 --> 00:20:26.157
<v Rachael Loney>He knows us as individuals.

00:20:26.157 --> 00:20:30.057
<v Rachael Loney>We were created uniquely and divinely for a purpose.

00:20:30.086 --> 00:20:35.667
<v Rachael Loney>And I believe that he will connect with us in a way that feels meaningful and fulfilling.

00:20:35.667 --> 00:20:35.697
<v Rachael Loney>I.

00:20:36.792 --> 00:20:37.602
<v Jaisa Engasser>I do too.

00:20:37.977 --> 00:20:49.947
<v Jaisa Engasser>I guess like the last thought I had was, you know, I made the point at one, at one point, I don't remember what episode it was recently, but it was around how, oh, we were, we were comparing like the Salem witch trials

00:20:50.126 --> 00:20:50.532
<v Rachael Loney>Oh yeah.

00:20:51.207 --> 00:21:05.636
<v Jaisa Engasser>a lot of the things that, um, were sort of outlined in those early gospels and gnostic texts that were intentionally burned, buried, or destroyed by the early church really would lend a more experiential.

00:21:06.447 --> 00:21:08.606
<v Jaisa Engasser>Faith or spirituality with Christ.

00:21:08.667 --> 00:21:23.757
<v Jaisa Engasser>And I've, I've kind of known in my heart of hearts that you know, depending on how people may view this, right, they could say the spirit of discernment or, you know, I have like some type of psychic ability, right?

00:21:24.687 --> 00:21:31.917
<v Jaisa Engasser>now feel like through this process I feel really empowered to be way more.

00:21:32.802 --> 00:21:33.402
<v Jaisa Engasser>Open.

00:21:33.402 --> 00:21:35.592
<v Jaisa Engasser>I know that people are gonna be like, okay, now you feel empowered.

00:21:35.592 --> 00:21:40.032
<v Jaisa Engasser>Like I've been talking about this stuff publicly for seven months, but I guess I've still wrestled with that.

00:21:40.032 --> 00:21:40.721
<v Jaisa Engasser>It's fear.

00:21:40.751 --> 00:21:41.261
<v Jaisa Engasser>It's fear,

00:21:41.322 --> 00:21:41.862
<v Rachael Loney>Yeah.

00:21:42.282 --> 00:21:43.812
<v Jaisa Engasser>I don't wanna go to hell.

00:21:44.021 --> 00:21:44.981
<v Jaisa Engasser>I like

00:21:45.132 --> 00:21:45.731
<v Rachael Loney>Yeah.

00:21:45.912 --> 00:21:46.961
<v Jaisa Engasser>that's like bad.

00:21:46.961 --> 00:21:55.271
<v Jaisa Engasser>And I was raised to believe that energy work or spirituality that's outside of what the church condones is evil and bad.

00:21:55.302 --> 00:22:03.981
<v Jaisa Engasser>And I really feel, excited'cause I had stumbled upon early word of Christ through other texts that were hidden from us.

00:22:04.461 --> 00:22:10.432
<v Jaisa Engasser>That made me feel like, oh, okay, like this is sort of what I was missing.

00:22:10.682 --> 00:22:15.332
<v Jaisa Engasser>The non-judgmental Christ that I felt, my heart that I viewed were blessings and gifts.

00:22:15.602 --> 00:22:19.382
<v Jaisa Engasser>Not, you know, things that should be condemned or viewed as evil.

00:22:19.886 --> 00:22:20.267
<v Rachael Loney>Yeah.

00:22:20.432 --> 00:22:23.072
<v Jaisa Engasser>had teachings that supported that.

00:22:23.221 --> 00:22:23.822
<v Jaisa Engasser>So.

00:22:24.182 --> 00:22:24.692
<v Jaisa Engasser>I don't know.

00:22:24.692 --> 00:22:27.177
<v Jaisa Engasser>I felt really happy when we're

00:22:27.346 --> 00:22:29.086
<v Rachael Loney>I, I think so too.

00:22:29.086 --> 00:22:32.086
<v Rachael Loney>I think I have always instinctively just connected more.

00:22:32.086 --> 00:22:37.967
<v Rachael Loney>I remember learning for the first time what Christian mysticism was, and I was like, oh, like this is my jam.

00:22:38.017 --> 00:22:41.707
<v Rachael Loney>And from a very early age, kind of backtracking a little bit what we were talking about with.

00:22:42.201 --> 00:22:43.971
<v Rachael Loney>God speaking to our children.

00:22:44.227 --> 00:22:44.447
<v Jaisa Engasser>Yes.

00:22:44.616 --> 00:22:46.417
<v Rachael Loney>So I'm gonna share a cool story I had as a kid.

00:22:46.417 --> 00:22:52.356
<v Rachael Loney>So I went to Sunday school and they shared the story of Mary being visited by an angel, and it totally freaked me out.

00:22:52.356 --> 00:22:54.067
<v Rachael Loney>I had a huge imagination as a kid.

00:22:54.067 --> 00:22:59.346
<v Rachael Loney>So every night I would go to bed and just be terrified of seeing an angel because i'm like, what would that be Like?

00:22:59.346 --> 00:23:06.576
<v Rachael Loney>I would be so scared if all of a sudden I look in the corner of my room at night and there's this light being, you know, like shining there.

00:23:06.576 --> 00:23:09.007
<v Rachael Loney>So I would pray every night not to have an angel.

00:23:09.382 --> 00:23:10.192
<v Rachael Loney>Visit me, right?

00:23:10.192 --> 00:23:11.451
<v Rachael Loney>I was absolutely terrified.

00:23:12.112 --> 00:23:21.052
<v Rachael Loney>And then one night, and I have always gotten things, we've talked about this before, through dreams, frequently, and this is the first time I ever had like a major dream.

00:23:21.442 --> 00:23:25.461
<v Rachael Loney>And in my dream I had won a contest for a walk with Jesus.

00:23:25.672 --> 00:23:32.461
<v Rachael Loney>And all I remember is I didn't see a face, I knew it was him, but I reached up and grabbed a hand.

00:23:33.032 --> 00:23:38.672
<v Rachael Loney>And he walked and he talked with me about how he would never do anything to frighten me.

00:23:38.731 --> 00:23:50.152
<v Rachael Loney>And I felt like such immense peace and it was just so loving and he just walked and talked to me in a way that felt very natural and reassuring that I don't wanna scare you.

00:23:50.152 --> 00:23:51.682
<v Rachael Loney>I love you, you're my child.

00:23:51.682 --> 00:23:56.001
<v Rachael Loney>And I woke up and it was like I was fine, but I just think that's.

00:23:57.501 --> 00:24:07.761
<v Rachael Loney>Both an example of how he will meet us, he will guide our children, but also like it's not always through the church that we receive answers.

00:24:07.761 --> 00:24:15.922
<v Rachael Loney>Like I really believe he wants to connect with us in multiple ways and we have to be open to that to allow for it to happen.

00:24:16.342 --> 00:24:20.182
<v Rachael Loney>And we sell ourselves short if we're only viewing it in one way.

00:24:21.231 --> 00:24:22.342
<v Jaisa Engasser>A hundred percent and

00:24:22.372 --> 00:24:22.792
<v Rachael Loney>Yeah.

00:24:23.032 --> 00:24:24.802
<v Jaisa Engasser>like the Kingdom of God is within.

00:24:26.032 --> 00:24:26.961
<v Jaisa Engasser>What does that mean?

00:24:27.021 --> 00:24:27.981
<v Jaisa Engasser>You know, the

00:24:28.057 --> 00:24:28.507
<v Rachael Loney>Yeah.

00:24:28.521 --> 00:24:32.011
<v Jaisa Engasser>of God is within and like there.

00:24:33.001 --> 00:24:38.701
<v Jaisa Engasser>Is such beautiful community resources, fellowship connection in church.

00:24:38.761 --> 00:24:39.842
<v Jaisa Engasser>Totally right?

00:24:39.856 --> 00:24:40.366
<v Rachael Loney>Yeah.

00:24:40.382 --> 00:24:53.251
<v Jaisa Engasser>disputing that whatsoever, but I think that being open and hearing your own intuition, hearing your voice, hearing who Jesus really is through your own self can really be special.

00:24:53.251 --> 00:24:56.491
<v Jaisa Engasser>I could tell you like very specific times throughout my life.

00:24:56.957 --> 00:25:14.957
<v Jaisa Engasser>Where I have called out to Jesus for help and I just so tangibly felt him, I know him in that way, and I know his energy, and something that's really beautiful, like sharing what you just shared about your dream.

00:25:15.227 --> 00:25:16.846
<v Jaisa Engasser>It's just total peace.

00:25:17.116 --> 00:25:21.646
<v Jaisa Engasser>So just making room and being open to how that comes is.

00:25:21.977 --> 00:25:22.667
<v Jaisa Engasser>I don't know.

00:25:22.727 --> 00:25:27.257
<v Jaisa Engasser>I think really exciting and you know, we really wanna hear from you guys.

00:25:27.257 --> 00:25:34.007
<v Jaisa Engasser>I mean, what, have your opinions been about some of the episodes that we've covered?

00:25:34.007 --> 00:25:36.557
<v Jaisa Engasser>I mean, we hit like some really meaty topics.

00:25:36.856 --> 00:25:39.197
<v Jaisa Engasser>We, we'd love to hear from you, learn from you.

00:25:39.197 --> 00:25:47.086
<v Jaisa Engasser>If there's resources that we haven't dived into yet, certainly let us know because, um, this has been really eyeopening for us and it's been fun to explore.

00:25:47.822 --> 00:25:48.402
<v Rachael Loney>It sure has.

00:25:48.592 --> 00:25:48.882
<v Rachael Loney>Yeah.

00:25:49.102 --> 00:25:49.602
<v Rachael Loney>I'm excited.

00:25:49.822 --> 00:25:51.346
<v Rachael Loney>So where are we going next?

00:25:52.366 --> 00:26:04.697
<v Jaisa Engasser>I dunno, like we, oh, one thing we should mention, so I think, you know, I are getting so excited about so many cool different topics that I think we're going to steer a little bit away from doing seasons.

00:26:04.957 --> 00:26:05.197
<v Rachael Loney>Mm-hmm.

00:26:05.237 --> 00:26:08.807
<v Jaisa Engasser>then we are just gonna cover topics they come to us because.

00:26:09.737 --> 00:26:15.707
<v Jaisa Engasser>like sometimes we wanna bring stuff to you guys, but we're in the middle of a season and you know, we don't wanna, we don't wanna be handcuffed.

00:26:15.737 --> 00:26:16.126
<v Jaisa Engasser>Okay?

00:26:16.136 --> 00:26:16.427
<v Rachael Loney>Yeah.

00:26:16.846 --> 00:26:19.096
<v Jaisa Engasser>loose and free and wanna do whatever the fuck we want.

00:26:19.126 --> 00:26:19.396
<v Jaisa Engasser>Okay?

00:26:19.396 --> 00:26:20.146
<v Jaisa Engasser>So here we are.

00:26:20.386 --> 00:26:29.477
<v Jaisa Engasser>So, next week we decided that we wanna talk all about angel numbers, and these are things that have always been, I don't know, I always laugh at these like.

00:26:30.332 --> 00:26:37.922
<v Jaisa Engasser>Memes and reels, and it's like, okay, my life's falling apart, but I saw 1111 on the microwave, so everything's going to be fine.

00:26:37.922 --> 00:26:48.782
<v Jaisa Engasser>But in all seriousness, I think angel numbers are a really cool way to explore your connectivity to the unseen, whether that's God or your angels, or however you view it.

00:26:49.052 --> 00:26:51.332
<v Jaisa Engasser>We're gonna talk through what certain angel numbers mean.

00:26:52.082 --> 00:26:58.892
<v Jaisa Engasser>gonna talk about some very personal experiences for us that have been really eye-opening, so stay tuned guys.

00:26:58.892 --> 00:27:00.211
<v Jaisa Engasser>It's gonna be a fun episode.

00:27:00.346 --> 00:27:01.067
<v Rachael Loney>It is.

00:27:01.126 --> 00:27:01.636
<v Rachael Loney>It is.

00:27:01.636 --> 00:27:01.967
<v Rachael Loney>Yeah.

00:27:01.967 --> 00:27:04.727
<v Rachael Loney>I think it's just a good like segue into.

00:27:05.057 --> 00:27:07.217
<v Rachael Loney>Some of this more mystical stuff that we're talking about.

00:27:07.217 --> 00:27:08.836
<v Rachael Loney>So be sure to tune in next week.

00:27:10.392 --> 00:27:12.282
Thanks for joining us for today's episode.

00:27:12.402 --> 00:27:18.701
If you are ready to take your spirituality to the next level, be sure to check out our website, spirit outspoken.com.

00:27:19.152 --> 00:27:26.172
There you can download free educational resources, read our latest blog posts, and join the spirit outspoken community.

00:27:26.771 --> 00:27:37.062
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