Allison Ferenci - CEO and Co-Founder of Camera IQ

 You know this as an entrepreneur yourself. I think the key to being an entrepreneur is perseverance.
 I shared, I sold my first piece of digital art on the blockchain in 2016.
 And you know, so an NF team. Aggressively early, an AIR experience across kind of any platform
 has an average play rate, at least the ones coming from camera IQ at 55%.
 You're listening to the radcast. If it's radical, we cover it. Here's your host, Ryan
 Alford. Hey guys, what's up? Welcome back to another edition of the radcast. We're getting
 meta today. We're getting AR, VR, MRPR, all the R's here, all the realities with my friend
 Allison Ferenzy, CEO and co-founder of camera IQ. What's up, Allison? Hey Ryan, thanks so much for
 having me today. Hey, my pleasure. I'm going to go and admit to everyone that they're hearing this
 is we have we're all we have transparency on the radcast. Allison is such a good sport. We started
 down the path. We had a complete meltdown of all machines, so we're doing some of this is take two,
 but none the less. We changed ourselves. We changed ourselves. I was like, we haven't edited,
 but three episodes. You're working tech and then everything failed. I know. But you know what,
 people appreciate the transparency and honesty. So, you know, if you're out there and you're listening
 to this podcast and you're doing your own, just know anything can happen. So anyway, we appreciate
 Allison. I really appreciate you being a good sport and I can't wait for everyone to hear what I
 already got to hear once, you know, but I do want to start with what got you into the AR world.
 You know, I think we've all been waiting for the promises to be fulfilled and sounds like you're
 you're headed down that path or well down that path with camera IQ, but what kind of led you there?
 Great, great question. So my background is as a creative technologist. I have been
 for better or worse in the AR XR space for the last 10 years. I got started when I was in graduate
 school doing a masters in interior architecture and digital interactive art and was really
 fascinated about what it would mean for digital content to occupy our physical world and was a
 believer that I could actually bring those two realities closer together. Love it. I love it. And
 you know, like how hard was it building camera IQ? I mean, was it I want to get later on into some
 of the specifics, but how's that entrepreneurial journey been for you? Look, I think and you know
 this as an entrepreneur yourself. I think the key to being an entrepreneur is perseverance.
 There's there's kind of what is your idea is the market right? And then are you willing to just
 stick it out? Because no matter what shit's going to be hard. And I think for camera IQ,
 you know, prior to founding camera IQ, I had an AR agency. So had the benefit of understanding
 where big tech was investing from the hardware, meaning into cameras, right? So most ubiquitous
 piece of hardware in the world, you look at Apple ads today and this is all they show, right? Is
 the camera had the benefit of watching them double down on the computer vision software. So the
 software that enables the camera to actually see and understand the world around them. Watch
 consumer behavior change to, you know, from everyone becoming a photographer with Instagram to
 the rise of stories and Snapchat to, you know, everyone being a creator because of TikTok.
 And then also new firsthand as a creator, how hard it is to create this content across platform
 at scale. But still, I would say, you know, it's hard as shit. It's a lot of pressure, but I feel
 lucky I wake up every day and I love what I do and I wanted to find the future of of computing.
 And I'm a believer that the metaverse or spatial computing is that. So as of now, running camera IQ
 is the best way I know how to do that. Well, you're a fashionable geek.
 For sure, like I looked at your Instagram and I'm like, okay, she's fashionable, but she's got to,
 there's a dork deep down under there. She's, she is, you gotta be, you know, like you're too
 intelligent. I'm not that every nerd is intelligent. There's always both. I'm dirty in my own way
 and I don't know that I'm smart. But, yeah, but I sense this intelligence, but also just kind of,
 you geek out on this stuff. Oh, yeah. I mean, I think, you know, when we were, when we were
 taking our our break here, getting to know each other, you know, I shared, I sold my first piece
 of digital art on the blockchain in 2016. You know, so you were early,
 aggressively early. And I think, you know, with all of these technologies, whether we're talking
 metaverse, web 3, NFTs, it's all a function of kind of not if, but when. And I think part of
 bringing these technologies to, to bear is about the practicality of how that technology is
 implemented. So, you know, I feel perhaps as a creative technologist, I am at liberty to say
 this, but like for me, tech for tech sake is art. It's all about how we implement that technology
 to make it work for whether it's for businesses or for consumers and hopefully, and all of that
 helping ourselves be more human. The, I love your definition of the metaverse. I'm going to
 tee up for it. The, you know, you've got Roblox going on, the gaming platform that has a metaverse.
 You have Facebook and meta. You have Decentraland. You have a lot of universes kind of being built.
 I'd love for you to kind of define the metaverse the way you do and kind of wear all these,
 how all these universes come together, maybe, or are they?
 Yeah. So, I'm going to try to do it better.
 So, let's talk about the kind of the what is the metaverse, the how, meaning the medium,
 and then the where. It is. So, what is the metaverse? Simply to me, it is the next evolution of
 the internet. And there's kind of three defining factors that differentiate it from the experience
 we have on of the internet today. The internet today is two-dimensional. So, the kind of three
 defining factors is the first is that it's going to be spatial. And so, by spatial, I mean it is
 3D. It is interactive and it's something we can move through, whether that is a virtual reality
 or virtual environment. So, a platform or, you know, like, Vansworld on Roblox or
 lightsaber on Oculus, right? Those are virtual environments or virtual realities.
 And then there's the mapping of digital content to our world. So, augmented reality.
 To that end, the what of it really is, or sorry, let me back up. So, that's the spatial nature of
 it, right? I can move through it. The second is that it's persistent. So, by persistent, I mean,
 I can map content into Times Square and it's going to persistently live there. It's not going
 to disappear when I'm not engaging with it. And the same is true when we talk about a virtual
 reality. This is very common in open world games, even when I'm not playing. The game continues.
 So, that kind of nature of it being live and persistent. And then the third is that it's shared.
 What I mean by that is that if you and I are in Times Square, not only is that object in Times Square
 persistent, but we are engaging with it together and seeing the same thing and having it react
 to both of us. So, in that way, it's shared just like you would in a virtual environment.
 It's a shared persistent experience. In terms of the kind of what is it? In terms of its medium,
 the how, we would kind of couch all of it in the big XR. So, extended reality.
 Primarily, that's going to be augmented reality or virtual reality. And then the where is it?
 You know, I think some folks have this conception that it has to be a head mounted display.
 But the truth or the reality of it, unintended there is the ways that we engage with them
 at a university are through our mobile phones, our tablets, personal computers, gaming consoles.
 You know, it will be head mounted displays at some point, but I also would argue it's going to be
 holograms. It's going to be really any piece of hardware that has cameras and screens. So,
 it could be your Tesla, right? All become computing platforms that help us enter the
 metaverse. Do you think these worlds at some point all talk to one another?
 Is that like, is that realistic or is it? Are they all just going to be?
 Obviously, and I do want to, you know, go down the wants, the needs, the professional side,
 business side versus the gaming side, but is it unrealistic to hope that all these worlds come
 together? I mean, I think that's an, it is absolutely today an infrastructure problem, right?
 It's like, even small simple things like, how do I have a consistent avatar across every platform?
 Right now, everybody has a different avatar system. But I think, again, I always go back to,
 if we're just thinking about the next iteration, the evolution of the internet,
 we see that those infrastructures in place on the internet today, like the app that I'm most
 obsessed with right now, I don't know, you guys use it is Shopify shop that is able to pull all
 of my shopping data and track all of my packages and write that before I had to manage all that
 shit in my inbox. Now, that's great app that helps me manage all of it. And that's an infrastructure
 that Shopify is put in place, right? So I think, absolutely, we will see that happen.
 But I'm a believer that you also actually have to be at scale. Why build that infrastructure
 if we're not at scale yet? Yeah. And I think that's, that's been the million dollar
 question for me with a lot of this stuff, like the promise of AR and VR and all, you know,
 we're talking about it for 10 plus years, but the promise and the experience haven't really
 aligned. I think that's been, you know, one of the most frustrating things. And I know,
 you know, you've developed camera IQ with a lot of that, and, you know, in mind,
 in making that some of that come to reality. But like, I don't know, like, again, I went to
 conferences 10 plus years ago, we talked about this was all the rage and it was definitely
 bored of us. Yeah. Yeah. But it's so interesting. I'm so glad you said that.
 But I would tell people, like, you know, QR codes were going to be the future, you know,
 like, and all that. And they're just now having their heyday because
 the pandemic is bad as it's been forced to consumer behavior. And so I paused there for a second.
 Yeah. It wasn't just, yes, absolutely. There was consumer behavior. But there was also a
 fundamental challenge with the hardware. Yeah. But I mean by that is QR codes have had their
 heyday in Asia for a long time, where Android is the primary OS. And Android cameras could always
 recognize QR codes. Apple only in the last, I believe, 24 months has allowed their camera to
 recognize QR codes. So until recently, the friction for a Western consumer, someone in the US,
 iOS or Apple is our primary device, you had a QR code reader. No consumer is downloading a
 freaking QR code reader and holding it up. It was too hard. So I think the pandemic was part of it,
 but it was the friction with the friction and what the hardware allows for.
 It was a thousand percent degree. It was two parts. It was absolutely functionality and 75%
 of US people were on iPhones. And so that was there. But you had this meeting of that combined with
 the average person. So let's just say, and again, let's remove Gen Z. Let's go 35 to 65. I know
 that's a wide range. They don't really give a shit. They didn't really have, they weren't forced
 to do QR coding. But once you had to go to a restaurant, the only way to read the thing was the
 user QR code. Once your behavior was forced, if you were going to get the information. So you
 you push. Now you see what who did at Coinbase. They're super bad, right? Yeah.
 Here's the thing though, it's like, yes, there is absolutely the change in hardware that reduced
 the consumer friction. But the biggest change I think also is like it went from being,
 I think all of us assumed QR codes were like, here's 50% of them all. You're just going to get
 some sort of marketing sale versus QR code in the restaurant had a real utility that we want.
 Like there is no other way to get the. Exactly. You had to do it. And then you're like, oh,
 this isn't so bad. It's built into the camera and it gives me useful information.
 Totally. Totally. And now you're like, I wire and QR codes for everything. Like I can get my
 manual for my new dishwasher there. Exactly right. But anyway, I digress on our QR code
 discussion. But what was funny is I remember the last thing I'll say about QR codes is when they
 first got you didn't have to you to download the the stupid app or whatever. But then some of the
 experiences they were building AR and VR kind of into it a little bit like where you would see
 through the lens of your thing and see different experiences within retail. And I always thought
 that that had all the potential in the world. And I think maybe we'll come back to that now that,
 you know, that use the usage is more viable. So to speak. Yeah. But I mean, look, I hear I think this
 is the promise of AR. And I think one of the secrets for camera Q other than in my opinion are
 great product is also our promise to our customers around practicality and utility, which is
 you know, we talk about how the what you do with camera Q today is an investment towards the
 metaverse. We're not trying to tell you you are 100% doing the metaverse. And this is the promise
 of it. But rather, hey, how do I use the camera and create different AR experiences that address
 the consumer funnel, meaning what are experiences that I can run on social that are going to
 drive top of funnel for me and have the outcome that I want. And we have the data that shows that,
 right? So for reference, an AR experience compared to a traditional post on social can reach
 up to 34x your audience versus a traditional post on social media, photo or video passive in my
 mind is only going to reach 0.5% of your audience. So again, if you want to widen your top of funnel,
 AR is the most effective medium. If we're talking about engagement, an AR experience across kind
 of any platform has an average play rate, at least the ones coming from camera Q of 55%, meaning
 55% of consumers have an opportunity to engage with the AR experience to do. When we look at folks
 at how they engage with a photo or video, we're talking about, you know, I think it's like a
 less than a 10% engagement rate. So like, again, kind of massive difference there in terms of
 whether we're talking about engagement, we're talking about consideration, that kind of mid funnel
 motion. And then when we look at conversion, meaning how do I use AR to visualize a product or
 try on a product before we buy, our customers are seeing at least a three and a half x increase
 in conversion rate. And in some cases, up to 10 x increase in conversion rate on their e-commerce site.
 So for us, it's less about, let's build fucking anything, right? And like, do the never been done
 before, but instead, how do you get really practical and insert the camera or AR into the consumer
 journey where we know it's going to make a difference in your business with the view that
 our promise is like, we will add platforms and to help you bridge into the metaverse, we will
 guarantee your content will work across platforms over time. And again, the content that you're
 building today, so you're investing in that 3D model, that will be used in the metaverse in
 the future as well. So that is our viewpoint. And from that perspective, our customers have been
 very successful. But again, our promise isn't, this has never been done before. Our promise is,
 here's where it works. And this is how we're going to drive your business forward.
 I like that. I do have a question. Several things to kind of unpack from all that. When you
 would, when you're describing like the engagement rate increases like of a post versus an AR experience,
 how do you define, are you saying instead of just a flat post, I post an AR experience,
 help me under unpack that a little bit of like, are you saying instead of posting the social,
 I need to send them within, I don't know, the story app to do an AR experience. How are we
 comparing that like apples to apples? So just candidly, it is one of the challenges that
 camera EQ has really been focused on solving is like, how do you make this apples to apples?
 Because they're not, right? The difference between an AR experience and a post is like,
 we're talking about an AR is, and even from a post meaning either a photo or video is like,
 I can play a video, but I can actually interact with an AR experience and then create a video and
 share it out. So it's like so much, it's such a richer experience. So even when we talk about,
 you know, how do we measure them against one another, it's not even, I feel like we're always
 cheapening an AR because we're just kind of trying to take that slice that makes it the same.
 But what we're talking about is like, most basic is, I post on my Instagram a story using an AR
 experience. 55% of people who see that story are going to choose to opt in and use the AR experience
 for themselves versus if I post a story that's just a picture, you're only going to see like
 1.6% engagement rate in it, meaning someone's going to like send a heart for like, now they can
 like it. So the difference there of like, hey, I like it to, this is cool. I'm going to use it
 is kind of, is astronomical. Yeah, I get it. I do always like to put like the fiery red eyes on
 myself when I do, when I do my stories, like scare people. Better than like changing your face
 structure. Yeah. I know. I know. The, um, it's funny. I mean, you can get down the rabbit hole
 with some of those things. It's kind of fun. Like, you're sitting there like going through all the
 filters and all the different things that it's like, kind of a little time suck sometimes. I'm like,
 okay, I had fun there. Like, there was one thing I came here when I was like, it makes you like,
 you sit in a chair and like, you look at it and then it pulls out and like, you're in the world
 or something. I don't know. All that shit's getting crazy. The, uh, I do want to talk because I thought,
 you know, in our, our two dot O reboot here, I really liked kind of how you talked about,
 you know, the reality is, you know, brands and people are hearing these things about the meta versus
 NFTs and web 3.0 and all these things. So, but it's always this, the want versus the need. Like,
 is this entertainment or is this the universe to come? Like, you know, is our world so fucked
 that we need to get into the metaverse? You know, like a whole other moral conversation. But, uh,
 but I do, I did like kind of your, your kind of explanation of the reality of where kind of all
 these things are going. Yeah. So I, I have, I'm of two minds. Um, the first is kind of putting
 want and need aside. I think if we look at Gen Z, which is going to represent the largest consumer
 base in the next, I think it's like in the next five years, they're going to have the spending power
 of any generation of all times and they're the largest level of black Gen Z.
 Um, the reality of Gen Z is they don't consume the way that previous generations have, meaning
 they're not interested in photo or video. Um, they're a generation that expects to have a voice
 in platform, meaning they want, they are, they can, they all consider themselves creators.
 Um, they are a generation that expects to see themselves reflected in your brand.
 There are a generation that wants to play with you before and, and participate in your brand
 before they ever purchase from you. Um, and a lot of that behavior is drawn from, from gaming,
 right? Um, that interactivity. Um, it's also drawn from, from, from platforms like TikTok. Um, so
 broadly what, what I believe is a requirement of the metaverse is that if brands want to reach
 this next generation of consumers, and I can't even imagine, you know, what our kids generate,
 I don't even know what they're called, Colonials. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How is it that?
 Something like digital Colonials. Yeah. Uh, programs, um, right, is like, if you want to engage
 with them, you can't just depend on making your marketing campaigns photo and video. You have to
 be thinking about interactivity, which is a key principle in the metaverse and this kind of next
 iteration of the internet. So I think there's that just requirement of like, if you want your brand
 to survive, you have to start to think about these immersive formats, because that's what the next
 generation expects. It's not what they want. It's what they expect. The second piece of this and,
 and, you know, for me, probably could have gone ARVR. I am now a VR nerd. My team and I meet in VR
 in the regular. I think it's becoming a really compelling experience. Um, but frankly, I love AR
 for the promise of the ability for it to give us, us back our humanity. Um, what I mean by that
 is, and, and, you know, is every time I pick up my phone and word together physically and I send a
 text message, I've just transported myself somewhere else. I, or I'm surfing the web here, which I know
 we're all guilty of, right? As like, I'm having my own experience here. Um, we're essentially in
 separate worlds at that point. And so the idea that the digital content can be in a shared time
 in space for you and I to engage with together. I think unlocks our humanity in a way that these
 opaque devices today has taken it away. Yeah. I think from that perspective, I would say it's a
 need, but the time horizon for me is not tomorrow. Um, realistically, I think just based on
 hardware and I think the amount of content we need, it's going to be a five to 10 plus your time
 horizon. Yeah. I think you're right there. I mean, because we have brands all the time, they're like,
 do we need to be worried about this? Do we need to be thinking about this? And I'm like,
 some of them, it's the answers. Yes. And I would say they have to worry about it, but they need to
 be brainstorming. And then some it's like, you know, your, your budget doesn't necessarily allow for it.
 And the, the opportunity isn't necessarily here for it. And I think it really depends. You know,
 it's so, I don't know, brand vertical specific. It's, I think it's brand and vertical specific,
 but I, I would say there's kind of two things depending again on, on vertical that your brand is
 in as like the first is like, if you're a product company, meeting yourself in a digital good,
 the most important thing for you to be doing as a business is starting to digitize your brand.
 You have to start, or we talk about as digital twins, how do you get, and so even if you can't go
 back in time and digitize all of your products, moving forward, how do you make that part of your pipeline?
 That's easier said than done. So which is why I'm like, that has to be a day one start making that
 investment. It should be part of your investment just based on the fact that
 visualizing products in 3D and AR can increase your conversion over three and a half X. So like,
 you should do that. And then I think if you're a content company, I mean in your, you know,
 median entertainment, you should be building in house, what it means to not just think about your
 IP as a linear story, but how do you start to think about this as an interactive experience?
 Where your audience can help drive or participate in new ways.
 I love that. And I'm going to make you unpack just because you never know who's listening,
 some people get it, all that. When you say, I don't know, camera IQ plays, I'm a TMI camera IQ
 and everything in this, you know, good marketer, good, good to my guess. The,
 uh, when you say digitize, explain to everyone what you mean if you're selling physical goods.
 And what does this mean when you say digitize exactly what does that allow me to then do and why
 should I do that? Sure. All right. Um, we could, we can talk, we'll talk about let's say beauty
 and a speaker company. Yep. Um, we have both as customers at camera IQ. So, um, very practically
 as a beauty company. Um, if you want to sell your product online and, and not, I mean, even
 testers and stores because of the pandemic is a health risk now, right? Um, how do people try your
 product before they buy? They want to, they literally want to try on an eyeshadow color,
 lipstick color. They want to make sure the, sure, the foundation matches their skin, right?
 When we talk about digitizing their products as they literally and, and camera IQ provides us for
 them are going in and, and, and matching the hex code. They're matching the finish and they're
 creating a digital version of a physical product. So in that case, it could be an eyeshadow.
 This same is actually true for, we talk about sneakers or furniture or watches is we are
 helping customers or encouraging our customers to literally make digital replicas,
 3D digital replicas of their physical products. Now, in a lot of instances, actually,
 at the point of, you know, the industrial design of that particular product,
 most people are actually using 3D software to do that. So that's where it's an opportunity
 at the top of production and design to start to think about how else that asset can be used
 at, at camera IQ and, and broadly, the opportunity there is like, hey, um, and, and now in a
 pinch a couple of different companies, um, and certainly can follow up on, on who they are, but like,
 you can use it for product visualization. So does that, does that eyeshadow look good on me?
 Does that couch fit in my living room? You can use it. We all know right now that, um,
 fulfillment is a huge problem, right? I just moved from LA. The port LA has basically
 everything we're all trying to buy, sitting out in the ocean, right? So, um, how could you
 uh, be pre-selling product by actually allowing people to see different colors, different
 skews? You could be using these 3D assets to reduce your cost in, um, product photography, right?
 Digital assets are good enough now that you can't tell the difference between if it's the real one
 or the digital one. Um, so there's kind of a number of ways. The other thing we see is when you
 actually visualize these products, um, at the point of purchase, you're reducing your returns,
 right? So you're actually becoming more efficient in that way. So I think the biggest barrier for
 brands here is how do we change our workflow at the top of production and design to make sure
 we're capturing those 3D models? But if you're able to do that, that asset can be used not only
 along your entire kind of e-commerce funnel, but can be used in your entire customer journey to
 help them make a smarter, better purchase, um, that not only increases your sales, but will help
 reduce your returns. Excellent. I love that. And so every sweatshirt, every t-shirt, and everything,
 make a digital version. So people can try it on or see how it is. And, and or, you know, if you
 build like a metaverse, you can use it digitally within that space, right? Yeah. You can't participate
 in the metaverse without these assets. Yep. It's the biggest blocker for Ryan. If you had to
 guess, you know, much content is uploaded to the internet every day.
 More terabytes than I can count. I've quintillion bytes of data are uploaded to the internet every day.
 That's 19 zeros. We can't even comprehend how much content that is. So again, if we want the metaverse
 to be as rich and interactive as the experience we have on the worldwide web today, we have to start
 investing in the in 3D content. Don't get me wrong. You can use 2D assets, but if we're trying
 to sell your product, you have to digitize your content in 3D. At the end of the day, that's what
 camera IQ does. Correct. You're digitizing content and helping build the AR experience.
 Great question. Primarily, camera IQ is actually enabling you to build these experiences and then
 have them work across platforms. So across all of the major social platforms, as well as on your
 e-commerce site. When it comes to digitizing your products, that's a whole other workflow that we
 have a number of partners that we can introduce our customers to to help them do that.
 So it's more of the AR experience once you have the digital assets in place. Yes, perfect.
 Talk to me about what's the evolution for you guys? There's so many platforms. We talked about this,
 how scattered it is, and how marketers have to slice and dice and work in a lot of different
 fields. For you guys, where's the evolution, where you guys seeing things with both with camera IQ,
 and I guess in general? We actually see that fragmentation as core to our business opportunity.
 Our promise is create ones and publish everywhere. Through camera IQ, a lot like platforms like Unity
 or before video is, you know, how to standard. You can essentially build on our platform and we're
 going to guarantee that it works on every major AR platform. We started with social because that's
 where their where consumers were in the camera every day. We're now on in web so we can support
 your e-commerce. We can do SMS marketing. We can do email marketing pretty much anywhere that you
 want to invoke a web page we can run. For us, the future really starts to look at both next
 generation hardware as well as virtual environments. While we're extremely passionate on a personal
 level, coming from a camera first world, so AR world, for us, VR is just AR with the lights out.
 It's just a different camera feed. It's either I have the live camera feed or I'm going to have
 a virtual camera feed. What you'll see from us over the next 12 to 18 months is starting to think
 about next generation hardware as well as the ability to distribute into virtual environments.
 And really focused on how do we become the best tool for creating scaling and managing these
 experiences? What inspires you? Where do you get inspiration? Is it just naturally like
 intrinsically in you? Like, I'm just driven. I'm inspired as a person. I mean, like, but do you
 deserve it? Yeah. Well, first I got into AR because I read a sci-fi book,
 and that for me was just a picture of what the future could look like and what it would mean for
 our digital and physical realities to share time and space. And that was really exciting. So
 that was kind of the kernel for me of like, oh, wow, this is how technology should act and how
 we can create a better human experience with it. In terms of inspiration, I think the thing now
 that I get most inspiration from is like, I love building tools. There is nothing more exciting
 for me than seeing one of our customers. And, you know, whether it's a social media
 marketer at a brand or a graphic designer who's, you know, using proficient in the Adobe Creative
 Cloud, having that aha moment of like, holy shit, I can create an AR experience. And it was joyful
 and fun. And I didn't spend hours trying to watch YouTube videos, you know, our customers say
 like the Canva of AR, if you're familiar with Canva, that for me, that democratization of technology
 is what I get out of bed every day for is wanting to invite more people to participate.
 I like that. Very good answer. Very good answer. So as we close out, Allison, I know, you know,
 we talked a little bit about NFTs and I think I mentioned, you know, that I posted on LinkedIn,
 like we all I believe firmly in the tech and the vision and what NFTs can enable,
 but a lot of really shitty digital art is clouding the issue. Where do you see it's
 dunking up the internet? And I think it's confusing people for exactly the true promise of what,
 you know, blockchain and the rest can kind of enable down the road. I'd love for people to kind
 of hear your take on that as we close things out. I mean, I will say this is my personal non-professional
 point of view. I think maybe it was this version, maybe it was the last I sold my first piece of art
 on the blockchain in 2016 on a very amazing early platform called monograph that's since relaunched.
 But I think really for me, the promise isn't, you know, there is absolutely a use case around,
 we could talk about them as NFTs, also known as collectibles, right? There's a digital collectible.
 That is certainly in some cases a use case. The sale of digital goods is another, right? So in game,
 but I think where I get excited and am most interested in Ryan, I think you're aligned is really
 if we talk about blockchain technology as a ledger and ability to authenticate and experience
 an asset and ownership from a particular person or brand, that's where it becomes really interesting
 to me. So whether that's, you know, you could be using it internally of who created these assets
 at this, you know, Fortune 500 ran where you have offices across the world being able to look back
 and actually look at who, what creator at your business made a particular asset or as a consumer
 to be able to authenticate that this color lipstick as a vampire bite red is genuinely from
 X brand and I can feel good about purchasing it. I think especially as we, you know, look at
 the fakes and not open another can. Oh god, yes. You can't, you can't fake the blockchain
 and that ledger and so that's where for me, the longevity of the technology becomes especially
 interesting for businesses. And again, not to say there aren't collectibles that aren't
 interesting for the right brand and use case, but I don't think that's the end all be all,
 I think that's a hype cycle or in right now. Yeah, totally agree. And I mean, I long for the day,
 even it seems like a really simple like one more step is just like patents, trademarks, legal
 contracts, everything. Why, why is it not early on the blockchain, right? Yeah, I mean, that's
 that's what a theorem is. It's now just about building. Maybe you should start a company.
 Something on top of it that actually makes that, you know, that contract. Yeah.
 More visible and easier. I think like there's companies like chain link that are trying to solve
 that. Yeah, like mortgage companies like more, there's so many things, right?
 Totally. You could sell a house so easily. Yeah.
 With that right.
 Titling and all that shit that gets told, it holds up and takes forever. I mean, oh my god,
 don't even get me started.
 I just went through it. Oh yes. Well, Allison, working everybody keep up with you,
 keep up with camera IQ and, you know, everything. Yeah, going on.
 On Twitter, um, under scrolls and wood, my maiden name, I know confusing, but what are you
 going to do? You don't want to change your name? Or camera IQ co on Twitter. And of course,
 you can head over to our website, camera IQ.com, shoot us a note. And we have an amazing team
 that would love to talk to you about how AR can be part of your business strategy.
 I love it. I really appreciate you coming on and let's stay in touch. I think we can help one
 another. And, you know, when I have my first like metaverse, uh, I don't know the mastermind,
 I'm going to have, I'm going to call in a favor and be like, all right, Allison, need you on this call.
 Let's do it. Let's do it. And, and only because I think it would be interesting, I think,
 but at some point we should do an episode in VR. Yes. You know, can you make that happen?
 Like, well, yeah, we should do a roundtable. We shouldn't buy like a handful of people and do
 a roundtable. Let's, yes. We need to do that. Nick and I have been talking about that very thing.
 And we just need someone is connected as you are to help us, uh, you know, short cut all what
 we need to make it happen. I love it. I love it. Well, hey guys, you know, we're to keep up with
 us. We're at theradcast.com. You can search for all of our content. Put in camera, IQ,
 in the search bar. You'll find all of the content from today's episode. You don't have to find me.
 I'm very proud of all the platforms at Ryan offered. We'll see you next time. We'll radcast.