Cassie Petrey Reveals Secrets on The Music Industry, Fifth Harmony and The Backstreet Boys

 Finding great candidates to hire can be like, well, trying to find a needle in a haystack.
 Sure, you can post your job to some job board, but then all you can do is hope the right
 person comes along.
 Which is why you should try Zippercrooter for free.
 At zippercrooter.com slash zip.
 Zippercrooter doesn't depend on candidates finding you.
 It finds them for you.
 It's powerful technology identifies people with the right experience and actively invites
 them to apply to your job.
 You get qualified candidates fast.
 So while other companies might deliver a lot of, hey, Zippercrooter finds you what you're
 looking for.
 The needle in the haystack.
 See why four out of five employers who post a job on Zippercrooter get a quality candidate
 within the first day.
 Zippercrooter, the smartest way to hire.
 And right now, you can try Zippercrooter for free.
 That's right.
 Free.
 Zippercrooter.com slash zip.
 That zippercrooter.com slash zip zippercrooter.com slash zip.
 One trend that I'm really happy about on both Instagram Reels and TikTok that I'm seeing
 is that I feel like music centric content is performing well.
 I'm seeing a lot of and not like music videos, but people singing, people playing instruments
 or sharing a new song.
 I'm seeing that type of content really do well, whereas I would say three or four years
 ago, it didn't.
 I had to figure out how to sneak your music into content, but now you just straight ahead.
 Music centric content is more popular than ever on those platforms.
 You're listening to the Radcast, a top 25 worldwide business podcast.
 If it's radical, we cover it.
 Here's your host, Ryan Alford.
 Hey guys, what's up?
 Welcome to the latest edition of the Radcast.
 We say if it's radical, we cover it.
 Well, when you hear names like Backstreet Boys, Britney Spears, Paramore, he's pretty fucking
 radical.
 I got the CEO and co-founder of Crowdsurf, Cassie, Petrie.
 What's up, Cassie?
 Hey, I'm good.
 How are you doing?
 Hey, just rocking and rolling here in South Caca Lackey, South Carolina doing what we
 do.
 Awesome.
 It's good to have you.
 I know you're in Hawaii.
 Thank you for having me.
 I am.
 Yes, I am in Hawaii right now.
 Nice.
 We all know.
 I guess work, play, a little bit of both.
 Yeah, I like to pretend like I live here, work in the morning and enjoy the island in
 the afternoon.
 That's cool.
 So now you got a deep background in music management and marketing with Crowdsurf and
 worded a lot of big name artists and still making waves pun intended.
 How's life treated you these days?
 It's been good.
 It's been, I don't know when this airs, but we're coming into the end of the year.
 And I feel like in the marketing agency business, a lot of work slows down at the end of the
 year, a lot of clients go on pause.
 They're reevaluating how they want to spend their money.
 There's usually a dip and I'm actually this year seeing the opposite.
 So a little more busy than usual, but feeling happy about that, it feels really good.
 Yeah.
 I've been in the agency and marketing business for 20 years and it does get in that law
 in December a little bit because you typically do some planning like October, November, but
 then for whatever reason, December kind of seems to fizzle out.
 Which I didn't hate because you catch your breath a bit, but it does.
 It's picking up for us as well too with some new business stuff.
 So I don't know, I don't know what that is necessarily a sign of.
 I don't know if everybody's like anxiously like, where's the economy going?
 What's trying to get ahead of it?
 I don't know.
 So it's hard to say.
 Yeah, maybe I was also worried about the dip because of that too, but I'm feeling good
 about signing new contracts and it's definitely unusual because I feel like in December,
 I'm usually having a conversation with my business partner, where I'm freaking out
 and she reminds me that it's normal at this time of the year and our bank statements are
 trending accurately.
 I literally have that December conversation every year and I'm feeling a little different
 about it.
 So I'm grateful for that.
 Let's set the table for everybody, Cassie.
 Let's talk about your background, your history and the industry and like maybe just
 for the nuts and bolts of what the hell you do.
 Yeah.
 I think sometimes it's hard to explain it because it changes so much, but I own a digital
 marketing agency and we also do some artist management now as well, fairly focused on
 the music business, but we have some sort of adjacent business as well and comedy with
 some actors and actresses and that sort of thing.
 And the main thing that people hire us for and the digital marketing businesses to be
 their social media manager for lack of better terms, that's, I feel like that job varies
 a lot from person to person and from company to company and from business entity to business
 entity, but we help with whatever they need help with in that world and it drastically
 varies from client to client, but a lot of social media strategy, content planning, a lot
 of content creation now and helping them with that side of their job because there's
 just so much more to create now.
 So I think everyone needs as much help as they can get sometimes.
 And in artist management world, it's, I feel like there's actually a lot of parallels
 to marketing, like digital marketing management to general artist management.
 You're just across more aspects and you have to spend more time on the client because
 you're across more aspects, but in artist management, I always say you're the center of a bike
 wheel and all the spokes come to you and you have to keep the wheel turning.
 And there that's always been a long-term goal of mine is to do more work in artist management.
 So I'm happy that we have more projects in that space and definitely looking for one or
 two more of the right artists that are the right fit for us going into the new year.
 But I'm excited to keep expanding that side of our business.
 How long have you been in the industry?
 About 20 years.
 Yeah.
 It's the same time frame.
 It's been a wacky world, right?
 Like the analog to digital.
 I mean, we had only so many ways with which to reach customers 15 years ago, 15, 20 years
 ago with mass media.
 And then this crazy thing with social media comes along and hits the opposite.
 It's like the fire hose of channels.
 What's that evolution been like for you?
 It's been incredible.
 I think that if you don't like that aspect of if you don't like change and trying to figure
 out how to utilize new tools and be excited about some sort of rinses being thrown in the
 system all the time, this is probably digital marketing and probably even the music business
 may not be the best job for you.
 And I'm not saying that's a bad thing or a personality flaw, just really thinking about
 just because you like music doesn't mean this is the right business for you.
 And I see a lot of people make that mistake and get really flustered with change and having
 to relearn things all the time and finally mastering something on Instagram.
 And then it completely being re-tooled or even sometimes the tool will go away.
 You really don't know what's going to happen.
 But I thrive on it constantly changing.
 And I remember when there was a lot of talk about is TikTok in a shutdown or not.
 And listen, I don't want TikTok to shut down.
 I like the tool.
 I think there's a lot of really advantageous things about it.
 But I see who it was like, but if it does shut down, there's a lot of things that could
 be really fun about it.
 And like where do people go and how do you capitalize on that moment of people's time on their
 phone going to other places and figuring out how to get there before other people do and
 have some good viral moments that that may actually I feel like I could be dreamed about
 it a little bit.
 You've really crystallized something for me.
 I'm the same way.
 I really like change.
 I don't get attached to very many things.
 And I've been the industry too, not only music side, but just more general marketing, big
 brand stuff.
 New York.
 And I never really thought about that parallel of my personality being good at adapting
 change, but how the industry changes and use in their talk and I'm like, you're exactly
 right.
 If you don't, I think the best marketers are the best change agents.
 Like you, you're comfortable change.
 You like change.
 If you're like me, there's a bit of 80Dness in that like jumping from one thing to the next
 and you enjoy that challenge, but that's really interesting.
 Yeah, I think I would get really bored otherwise and I think a lot of it came from I lived with
 my grandparents growing up and my grandfather, he always had these, I don't know if they have
 these magazines anymore, but you get this magazine that had like all these new gadgets
 in it and he loved trying them all and seeing if any of them could make his life better.
 And it was really fun.
 I really enjoyed watching that and I think I maybe get a little bit of that like curiosity
 from him.
 That's what it is.
 It's the curious, the marketers curiosity, like we're all, I think the true marketers
 are the most curious people.
 Yeah.
 And I remember, and you get inspiration from like the weirdest things I remember I was
 talking to my dad a couple days ago and he, so he that owns like a small like gardening
 business and he actually does a lot of his marketing on next door.
 Yeah.
 I wonder what I could take from that in music, like what, because next door is so, that's
 how he gets all its work.
 That is so prevalent.
 How would an artist potentially take advantage of that?
 I'm not sure, but I'm curious to think about it and maybe find the right client who
 would be down to experiment with that.
 Yes.
 It's so next door, I feel like is on tap for certain things.
 I don't know about for missing a music artist, but it is, but I think it's that community
 thing, right?
 There's like a trust involved because it's typically like zip code driven or whatever.
 And so everyone feels a little safer, maybe a little more trustworthy with the content
 that they're because it's so community driven.
 Yeah.
 It's wild too.
 I think people feel really comfortable posting about certain topics that maybe they wouldn't
 share on Instagram or Facebook.
 Yeah.
 That person drives it by my house at night, you know, there's a lot of drama about squirrels
 on mine.
 Whether you should feed them or not, I have a good time reading it.
 So let's name drop a little bit.
 I did it at the outset.
 I know you've worked with some big artists, maybe tell me some good stories or audience.
 Some of the stuff you've done with some of the bigger name artists, I know that's where
 that's been both pulling your hair out and fun at the same time.
 I love the, I love artists at all levels.
 And I think some of my favorite things I've done have been watching artists go from literally
 registering a social media account to having a number one hit.
 And one of my favorite stories to talk about is I worked with Fifth Harmony from literally
 day one because I was a digital producer on X Factor season 2012 and that was the season
 they were on and they literally weren't a group yet at that point.
 So I saw them audition and met them before they became a group.
 And it was really cool to be a part of watching them form to going to acquiring them as
 a client once they were a group and to work with them through the entirety of their career
 and watch an Instagram account go from, Twitter was very important in their era.
 They'll watch in these accounts get registered and go from zero to millions to, they have work
 from home has over a billion streams on Spotify but that's really rewarding to watch it
 from day one literally.
 And I actually, I had one memory I have of them is when they were, this was when a social
 media didn't have the kind of support for talent and artists in terms of like actual staff
 that they have now.
 So I remember when I had to switch Fifth Harmony because they had two other names on the
 show before they became Fifth Harmony and I had to register their Twitter handle live
 and it's you don't want to do it so early that you reveal the name before Simon Cowell
 does but you don't want to have somebody else grab the name before you do.
 So it's really, I'm like watching from like the truck and like doing it 60 seconds before
 I know he's announcing it and now you would have, I would have staff that would help me
 with that in terms of staff that's at Twitter slash X or meta or wherever but then they're
 just okay we're off at five, have fun and that was a really stressful moment for me because
 also you're you're in a tent in a parking lot like Wi-Fi isn't as reliable it's there's
 a lot of variables but I'll never forget being in like a tent switching Fifth Harmony's
 Twitter handle live is Simon Cowell is announcing their name being changed again it was a very
 stressful moment for me.
 I imagine the real especially like all right how fast can this happen knowing that I can
 go live any second certainly delays because you want because you want to grab the old
 name yeah you have to grab the old name so that somebody doesn't get it and capitalize
 on that too it's Turkey like handled changing social media handle names is more stressful
 than it sounds I promise you that yeah because you don't want to lose if they've got build
 up audience and then making sure the names available and especially as soon as Simon Cowell
 is about launch it how many million people are going to Google it search for it and then
 look for yeah or look for that name on our search for within the platform so you're like
 oh it's gotta be set up and then we'll do the like you're talking about a little bit
 like buying they'll go buy sometimes there's handles of names or companies or something
 they have it like thought of it like they'll go some scrupulous people will go buy or
 just get the handle like URL like the WWW name for different things we've had that happen
 with like companies that didn't play in a head yeah so you want to think through and make
 sure that you don't have that moment on social media or WW handles or wherever like where
 somebody else grabs your name and they squat on it forever it's really horrible getting
 those back sometimes what's the process for how both now and in the past like artists
 come to you or you get in front of or get the opportunity to become the marketing or music
 management for a big artist I would say cold pitching or not even cold pitching even pitching
 people I feel like pitching unasked or unprovoked hardly ever works I do it occasionally because
 myself if I see an opportunity that exists that I didn't inquire on for example there's this
 pop artist right now who has that has a lot of hits and is doing really well but I noticed her
 tour wasn't selling well so I know her management team so I pitched and I was like hey if you want
 somebody to do tour marketing specifically I know you're killing it on the music side the viral
 side but I on ticket master you can see if how tickets are doing you can see the whole map and I
 saw that this artist's tickets weren't selling as great as I thought they would based upon her
 success with music right now right so I reached out and pitched about that I didn't hear back I
 probably won't because again I feel like that never works in music for some reason so most of my
 projects do come to me or their referrals or they're like I would say most of my I feel like I
 get a couple texts every day that's hey do you have time to take this on it needs to start immediately
 that I feel like that's how most of my business comes in it's never hurt okay and three months
 we're gonna watch this it's usually we need to do yesterday can you start immediately you don't
 even have to do official proposal because we don't have time to wait for it I would say that's
 how the majority of my business comes in right now the old fire am ready yeah I like that though
 like it's less work for me to get started I don't have to make a big PDF they already know what
 they're buying I don't have to explain it I don't have to sell it I like that in a lot of
 situations especially if I've worked with at least one of the team members before the expectations
 are in the right place and I don't have to do all that up front work because a lot of times
 you're doing so much work up front and then if you don't get the bid you you lost time and
 labor over that and it's frustrating because you've spent time on something and may or may not
 get the project so yeah yeah I was yeah we at our agency I've gotten really transparent with
 like clients on I'm not gonna spend three days on a proposal this is gonna be very generic yeah
 because you spend your whole you could make no money and do nothing but do proposals if we
 but you give away all the ideas and do everything and I had to learn that the hard way like he worked
 I worked on a lot of big companies and big industries and then started my own agency starting
 out you you start to put time you feel a lot of thought in those things you could just do nothing
 but that and you may not get any of the business yeah it's a balance because you want to put your
 best foot forward and give your best shot at getting a project but like you you do have to put
 boundaries on it because you could literally spend I could spend 40 hours on it myself on a proposal
 if I wanted to and make it amazing if but you it's just not reasonable to do that so I have
 three or four kind of templates I operate off of and depending upon how much the project is what
 type of project it's more corporate or indie I adapt and create a proposal based upon that but
 yeah you could spend a really long time making a marketing planner proposed pitch look really good
 well spend some of the the music industries changed a lot social media has changed that
 tech talk I know you can tell me the stories but talk to us about just the changing music landscape
 with streaming and everything else this is a different game right it is a very different game
 and there's some things that are really nice about streaming that the thing I like about streaming is
 that when before when an artist would sell a record they would get paid off of selling that one
 record and they you don't get they didn't get paid based upon how many times they played that song
 on that record is a consumer and now they do so I think that's cool the downside is that in order
 to make back that one dollar or whatever you would have had on a song somebody has to play that song
 over a thousand times and that's unfair too the I like the concept of streaming in terms of somebody
 being rewarded financially for a long time I like how easy it is from a lot of consumer standpoints
 but the finances still have a long way to go in terms of I think compensating people fairly
 for songs that they listen to a lot it's a tough balance right now and I almost think that sometimes
 there's too much value attached to paying $10 a month like you really get every song ever made
 for that amount of money there there has to be some a little bit more push and pull I think
 on that but I do like the experience as a consumer and I like artists being able to see long-term
 how have data attached to their songs and have finances attached to that but the
 finances still don't match what we are getting off of selling records in a lot of situation so
 it's interesting to think about that it's been interesting also like the opportunity for independent
 artists seems in some ways greater than ever because of the ability of social media to pop off now
 they may still run into some of the financial challenges like we just talked about but if they're smart
 and they tie everything together they can monetize with their influence online and merchant
 but it does just seem like there's a more clear path for independent artists than there's ever been
 there there is and there's a lot of opportunity there's a lot there's a bigger middle class of artists
 now there's a lot of artists that they may not be like giant mansion and Malibu rich but a lot of
 people making six figures and having a good life off of music that's possible for more people now
 and I think that's a really cool thing and I think that the other thing that's really great about
 social media and ease of distribution of music is that it is more saturated because more people
 have access to these tools but everybody can at least have a shot at it you can really try
 without no matter where you live no matter who you can try and you can give it a shot whereas
 I think several decades ago you just everyone couldn't give it a shot the way that people can now
 at least not in the same capacity so I do think that there's something that's really nice about
 more people having a chance and more control over
 being able to share their music and share content that there is something that's really awesome
 about that yeah and I think and you see this like it's the personal brand right like obviously
 the music is so tied to these artists that they kind of guides it for them but they're
 able to bring to life their personality and a broader picture of themselves of an artist the
 ones that do it right like with what social media brings because again 15 20 years ago it was
 you got to sell albums an independent artist can't afford to be on TV unless they're invited on
 television or they get in mass media somewhere or make local radio whereas now there's this
 distribution aspect and ability to almost have their own once they have some attention garnering
 from the music itself they become their own media network and I think the ones that are doing
 well are the ones maybe they're that high six figures million dollar type bumping their head up
 against some real dollars yeah and they're I feel like all the people who are living in that
 independent artists making a good like middle class artist living so to speak is what I'm calling
 it they are all really smart they're not just good at music they're good business people
 yeah how to take what they do with their music and make social media representations of that
 because I think about when music video format came around a lot of artists were really resistant
 to making music videos they didn't understand why they had to have a visual attached to the song
 they didn't like that but what happens is that music evolves with like the physical media
 players that we have in our lives so as the television became more popular music had to have a
 version of itself that was on television or else you're not going to reach people because that's
 how people consume media and now we have phones and we've had to evolve music to be something that
 fits in people's phones and be in the format that people are consuming general media and general
 entertainment so we have to evolve art to be in those places or else people aren't going to get
 exposed to your music tiktok short form vertical content is the new music video and that is how
 you're going to reach new people and it's the equivalent of saying you're not 10 20 years ago saying
 you won't make a music video where that was standard and that was the only way to be on MTV
 so if you want to be on today's MTV which is tiktok phone you have to figure out how to make
 content to be on that format how do you like when you're working with artists to that end from a
 content perspective what becomes your role working with either an up and coming or an existing one
 as far as content development and and what have you seen as some of the trends of what's working what's
 not working on maybe some of these platforms yeah so every artist is very different in terms of
 how they should use or how they feel comfortable using social media one trend that I'm really happy
 about on both Instagram Reels and tiktok that I'm seeing is that I feel like music centric content
 is performing I'm seeing a lot of um and not like music videos but people singing people playing
 instruments and sharing or sharing a new song I'm seeing that type of content really do well whereas
 I would say three or four years ago it didn't so you had to figure out how to sneak your music into
 content but now you just straight ahead music centric content is more popular than ever on those
 platforms so I think that's a really good thing for artists because I feel like a lot of them didn't
 want to get on tiktok for example because they're like I don't want to dance and lip sync and I
 even then I would reel it back for them and say hey at the core of this platform it is a platform
 where you post videos we don't have to do what other people are doing you literally just have to
 figure out what videos you want to post on that platform I think that meant for a lot of artists who
 were resistant to that I think that made it click for them which is great and I think that once you
 get over that like mental barrier why you should or shouldn't be on a platform and what you're going
 to post on it I think it becomes a lot easier and can become fun so that's a way that I break it
 down for a lot of artists who are resistant but it's I think it's easier than ever for artists to
 be a part of it because again like music content content is being consumed which is really awesome
 and I'm really happy about that I've been waiting for it so it's good there's a lot of fun stuff
 on there right now yeah I feel like in my feet I'm big in the music like this listening and so I'm
 sure the algorithm has got me figured out but it's and I'm a country music guy I listen a lot of
 everything but like now it's like I'm typing on TikTok it's every other one someone in their
 guitar or singing somewhere so I think you're right I definitely see a lot more not just the music
 video or the whatever the portrayal of the song might have been but just live concert things or
 some of these artists just doing very organic portrayals or playing I don't know they're back porch
 yeah no it's great and then there's the whole there's a lot of like singing and garage video
 friends singing and car playing music for people in car doing like a stripped down acoustic version
 of a song or sharing a new song for the first time in that format so it's good there's a lot of
 ways to share music on social media right now that are being well received do you guys work with
 artists like has the all the music is pretty much streamed and the money is made there for the
 most part that and I do you guys get into like concert management and touring or merchandise or
 other ways for monetization for these artists for sure I would say especially on the independent
 artists whether word when they're when we're their artist manager we're definitely very involved
 that's a big part of our job and how a lot of them make their living but even with the artists that
 were not the artist manager of we are helping sell those things because that's how they make their
 income some artists or venues will hire us specifically for tour marketing or show marketing
 figuring out how do we do that both online and offline because a lot of times creating a moment
 online or offline for example sending an influencer or cool item that's themed around
 a concert that creates an online moment we do some concert marketing we do a lot of merchandise
 designs and a lot of marketing that merchandise but we're really helping market
 anything that is a part of their income stream so that could be a new movie they're in a sink
 that they got in a movie merchandise what their tour are coming up a lot of times we're across
 artists brand deals and making sure that they have all their deliverables on that we get the
 contract and make sure that they actually do what they're supposed to but all we're across
 really pretty much anything that's gonna make the money there's gonna be a digital reflection
 of that and we have to be across that any good juicy or drama stories from like large artists
 that you've worked with like any good story drop and you can do from I don't know something
 that has to be juicy or salacious but just I don't know fun I know you mentioned the one thing
 but anything else that's like rare that people would get a kick out of oh I don't know I think
 this is always a fun story for me I remember one time so backstreet boys were like the love of my life
 when I was 12 and they all and they're kind of mine now and they all know that they were the love
 of my life when I was a teenager and I remember I was at dinner one time with AJ from Backstreet Boys
 and he just like cornered me and he's who was your favorite and I was like I don't want to
 answer that question this is so stressful to me who's your favorite who's your favorite I'm like
 I'm not gonna tell you and he's like no it's not me because you would have said it and I was like
 oh you're right it totally gave it away but that was it was funny but also I got really embarrassed
 about it because I also I really didn't want him to know who my favorite was because I know
 them all now and I don't want to be like yeah I had a huge teenage crush on this person like
 it really stressed me out do they embrace it now good nature do they embrace it or is like
 social media they're hiring you to manage it they know they need to do it but I would think that
 some of them are just kind of they understand the power of it but it's a lot they're all smart
 and I think they understand that it's important and I think some of them some of the members of
 Backstreet Boys I think have a really good time on social media I think I don't think any of them
 hate it yeah and I think a lot of them do have moments where they have have fun with it but I
 do think they all view that it's important and I think they view me and my team is important
 because we understand they're fanbase and what they're gonna want to what's important to them
 because I think sometimes they're almost surprised as to what a fan of theirs might care about
 their like really that's interesting and I'm like absolutely like your fanbase will love this
 I promise but they're in general just really great to to work with them very like reasonable and
 kind and they didn't fall in the don't meet your heroes category for me thank god I was worried
 about working with them because of that because I love them so much when I was younger and they're
 one of the reasons why I loved going to concerts and wanted to work in music but they fortunately
 have been awesome and very easy going in term and cooperative about social media so I'm grateful
 for them what do you make of the power of music I think is no better personified now than the power
 of Taylor Swift and everything that's happened with her and every storyline and I mean I just
 saw where she was like the most streamed artist on Spotify this year it's just it's amazing kind
 of watching her journey both in and out of the music industry all this music talk made me think
 of her and just stuff with Travis Kelsey and all this stuff but she's just a total badass huh
 yeah yeah she's a brilliant artist and a brilliant businesswoman on you know both sides I think she
 has both of those things mastered and I think something that's been really cool about watching
 her release all the Taylor's versions of these all the Taylor's versions of her records is
 that it shows that like when a song comes out it's not dead in three months like it has a bigger
 like songs have a really big lifespan and can deserve to be re-released and celebrated again
 and I think that this concept has really proven that point I think also trends and TikTok have
 really proven that point songs that are more popular now than they were 10 years ago but music
 doesn't have to like age the way I think that we traditionally have looked at it as an industry and
 I think that her releasing those records has proven the power of that and a lot of trends that are
 happening on TikTok and social media in general have proved that point I'm excited about that because
 people spend so much time creating these songs and they shouldn't just be shelved because they're
 three months old so I'm really happy about that that is a very good insight and a very good point
 and something I've noticed with the way back if you look at the charts now the way some of these
 artists where it was always just is always about that timeline okay when it comes on how long is
 it going to make it on air and like it lives and dies on that timeline when you're 100% right
 number one these albums have 10 to 15 songs on them and there's always some
 albums maybe there's only one hit but a lot of them there's a ton of songs on there and it's
 been interesting if you watch the charts seeing like five six seven songs from different artists
 that make the charts that stay on there and then even back to my country comparison worried
 having like entire that every song on the album in the top 20 for six months and then the album
 and but to your point the longevity of the songs and then bringing songs back I have appreciated
 that happening more and I think it's probably just the nature of the streaming and not just living
 and dying by the radio station but that's a great insight yeah and I love the multiple songs on a
 chart thing because growing up when I was a teenager you didn't see that because radio drove a lot
 of those numbers and I think about when back to your boys Millennium came out and I wanted that
 way it's going to be the song that was charting with that moment and then you had larger than life
 after that but it would have been released now that whole record would have been charting that way
 and and I and I all those songs had cultural relevance and not just the one that was on the chart
 I like to see a more accurate representation of what people are listening to and excited about
 and a lot of times that is multiple songs from the same artist and I think it's also encouraged these
 artists to not just to put out music faster but not be scared that they have this one hit going
 and they don't want to ruin it so like they're quicker to do collaborations they're quicker to do
 an EP or put out a song fast it just seems like it's helped evolve the
 artists that have a lot of talent a lot of ability to just keep pumping it out
 yeah for sure and you don't have to go be in a studio for a year and not release anything like
 there's there you don't have you don't have to follow you can follow any template you want now
 there's for some artists that is the way they need to do it they need to go
 collect their thoughts and make a record for a year and then come back but some people are
 like tortured by that process and like they some artists like to release stuff
 closer to when they're developing it and I'm glad that's an option for them now
 absolutely Cassie has been a great discussion where could everybody learn more about you keep
 up with everything that you're up to so I'm most active on LinkedIn and Instagram and it's
 just my name Cassie C-A-S-I-E-P-T-E-P-E-T-R-E-Y it's been great having you all I appreciate you
 doing it thank you for having me and if you want to learn from me directly join my newsletter
 ryanoffer.com backslash newsletter sign up I give daily advice on marketing personal
 branding podcasting life give that a shout join that it's free it's daily just like this show give
 away our best advice hey guys you know to find us the radcast dot com search for Cassie
 Peter you'll find all the episode pilot clips from today the links to her profile and the full
 episode audio and video you don't find me I'm at ryanoffer on all the social media platforms we'll
 see you next time to listen or watch full episodes visit us on the web at the radcast dot com
 or follow us on social media at our instagram account d dot rad dot cast or at ryanoffer stay radical
 yeah
 warning the following zippercruder radio spot you're about to hear is going to be filled with f words
 when you're hiring we at zippercruder know you can feel frustrated for lorne even
 like your efforts are futile and you can spend a fortune trying to find fabulous people only to
 get flooded with candidates who are just fine fortunately zippercruder figured out how to fix
 all that and right now you can try zippercruder for free at zippercruder dot com slash zip with
 zippercruder you can forget your frustrations because we find the right people for your roles
 fast which is our absolute favorite f word in fact four out of five employers who post on zippercruder
 get a quality candidate within the first day fantastic so whether you need to hire four 40 or
 400 people get ready to meet first rate talent just go to zippercruder dot com slash zip to try
 zippercruder for free don't forget that zippercruder dot com slash zip finally that zippercruder dot com slash zip