Connecting with Purpose: Charles Vogl on Building & Cultivating Relationships

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<v Speaker 1>And she said and when you meet someone, don't ask them for anything for at least three intimate experiences, because you've got to build a relationship right, you've got to find shared values and you've just got to find shared interests.

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<v Speaker 1>And maybe they won't be there and you won't have three experiences.

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<v Speaker 1>But, charles, as you're looking for support for this filmmaking, just know you're not going to ask for the first three intimate experiences.

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<v Speaker 1>And since, charles, you know you're not going to ask, don't worry about it.

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<v Speaker 1>Meeting people in a large event a cocktail party, an alumni event, a wedding reception that's fine, but it doesn't count.

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<v Speaker 1>In building a relationship.

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<v Speaker 1>You have to build a relationship and an intimate experience.

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<v Speaker 2>All right.

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<v Speaker 2>So today we've done something different here on the Big Success Podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>Charles and I have become buddies.

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<v Speaker 2>Today we've done something different on the Big Success Podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>Charles and I have become buddies.

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<v Speaker 2>This is his second time on the Big Success Podcast and we go deep, deep into the subjects of connecting.

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<v Speaker 2>This is Charles Vogel.

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<v Speaker 1>Imagine how my life changed when, in my late 20s, I started creating over 100 intimate experiences a year, only doing things I like to do the art of community.

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<v Speaker 2>That's the work of this man, charles Bowden.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, charles, second time on the podcast, we're going to do something totally different today.

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<v Speaker 2>Good, we talked as friends about the conversation about loneliness and we discussed the whole thing of people not having many friends and that sort of thing.

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<v Speaker 2>Can you just brief the audience on those stats before we get into the discussion around that stuff?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah well, the recent research that the recent Surgeon General Vivek Murthy published widely is that half of Americans do not have four close friends.

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<v Speaker 1>I believe the research is half of Americans have three friends or less and about one out of six Americans say they have no close friends.

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<v Speaker 1>And that is not a new rather, that is not old statistics.

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<v Speaker 1>In a generation we've seen a dramatic drop in the size of networks, the number of friends people have, the number of close friends, and for the first time in American history, the research shows that younger generations are more lonely than older generations.

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<v Speaker 1>And to put that in perspective, it was just taken for granted that as you get older and you have less mobility and your friends get sick and die, you become more lonely.

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<v Speaker 1>That is no longer true.

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<v Speaker 1>In fact, recent research shows that as much as 80% of young people in America say they're experiencing loneliness.

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<v Speaker 1>And the reason this is relevant in my work is when I'm training people in leadership roles to get better at connecting people they care about.

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<v Speaker 1>I want us all to understand we don't have to go very far before we're finding people who want us to get better at connecting people and who are actually desperate to be connected with the people who can bring people together.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but I look at it and I wonder about relationships like.

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<v Speaker 2>My parents moved into not an old people's home but a resort style community for over 50s thought style community for over 50s and they made you know 50 new friends in six months because they knew how to make friends, like they knew how to connect.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know, did people just lose that skill?

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<v Speaker 2>What happened?

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<v Speaker 1>The research seems to indicate, Brad, at some level, yes, that our social contexts have changed so radically.

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<v Speaker 1>One of the things that's happened is we're moving more through our lifetimes than ever before.

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<v Speaker 1>Like moving physically yeah, physically moving, and whenever we do that, we're largely resetting the community we need to create to have the life we want.

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<v Speaker 1>We also know that Americans are largely moving away from their home faith traditions.

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<v Speaker 1>We also know that Americans are largely moving away from their home faith traditions and while many people have very, very good reasons for doing that, it also means that we're not gathering with people who share our purpose and value in life over and over again and experiencing maturation together.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I remember when I first moved to Vegas I didn't really have a group, you know, and once I got a group of guys that I started to hang with, there was a Jimmy Kimmel skit called Handsome Men's Club and I just nicknamed the group and created a group chat on the phone Handsome Men's Club and just said all right, this is now my group, you're the gang, and it's interesting how, I don't know, I just sort of see my role as being almost a connector of people, if that makes sense.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, it's funny that you should say that, brad, because you and I were chatting earlier and you perfectly exhibited a type of maturation in connecting people and being a person who convenes.

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<v Speaker 1>And I just want to be really clear.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not inventing this myself.

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<v Speaker 1>I learned this from Marissa King, who used to teach at the Yale Business School and now teaches at Wharton, and she wrote a fantastic book called Social Chemistry and she talks about how there are different types of connectors, and one of the types of connectors is the expansionist, the person who just wants to meet more people.

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<v Speaker 1>And they do the things that meet more people, and my guess is Brad.

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<v Speaker 1>If I met a 21-year-old Brad, he didn't yet have powerful business connections, he didn't know who would be helpful and what you wanted to do, and so he was just meeting people and was getting out there and wanted to make sure that they knew his name, and he was making sure that you went to places where you'd meet people important to you, and so that's what an expansionist does, and that's a very, very important person, because if you don't have connections into a field, then you got to expand right.

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<v Speaker 1>But at some point, brad, you knew as many people as you can know.

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<v Speaker 1>In fact, you knew more people that you wanted to know better and spend time with than you physically have time with, and I know you have a family and you probably want to spend time with them.

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<v Speaker 2>So you don't want to spend time with them, so you don't want to spend every Saturday meeting more business people.

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<v Speaker 2>Dude, today my wife and I joke about this that we just don't have room for new friends.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right.

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<v Speaker 2>Who are we going to drop to add a new friend?

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<v Speaker 2>That's exactly right.

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<v Speaker 1>We don't have time and, honestly, I'm in a similar place and that's a great place to be, in the sense that you matured into it.

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<v Speaker 1>You have enough friends that you want to spend time with them and you want to be available to them and you want them to call you on bad days and good days, and you didn't have those.

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<v Speaker 2>We throw a lot of parties and it's why, for sport, we have a suite for, like, concerts and stuff, because, like, we can't invite two people to a concert You've got to have we need the 16 people suite just to you know, that way we catch up with you know, 14 other people at one time, sort of thing.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, so that that explains why for me, okay, I'm an expansionist.

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<v Speaker 1>No, you were an expansionist, you're now a convener.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, now you convene the people that you want to know or that are important to you, and I know that over a couple of years there's some rotation in and out of that.

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<v Speaker 1>People move away, some people's priorities change, but largely you're bringing people together that you're already connected with or the people who they bring, which is to say, they're one degree away, and if someone isn't one degree away or doesn't meet you directly, they largely don't have easy access to you because you just physically don't have the time.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I think that's a lot of the things.

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<v Speaker 2>It's like some people think oh, you know, Brad, it's like I teach my kids good friends reach out and they show up.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow, that is powerful medicine.

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<v Speaker 1>To teach them right.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow, that is powerful medicine to teach them.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, it's like I even set it in my phone to remind me to just reach out, like it's like reach out time and it's it's tough, but when you get in the car, just dial a friend, dial a friend, dial a friend.

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<v Speaker 2>And it's like even my mom.

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<v Speaker 2>I have a reminder every week to call my mom Cause otherwise sometimes I forget Even my mom.

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<v Speaker 2>I have a reminder every week to call my mom, because otherwise sometimes I forget.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure Life happens.

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<v Speaker 1>So let's go back to this loneliness thing.

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<v Speaker 1>Buddy, how did we end in this position?

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<v Speaker 1>How do we get to this of changes?

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<v Speaker 1>So we talked about the fact that we're moving more.

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<v Speaker 1>We talked about the fact that people have left their faith traditions, home faith traditions, and that's a big one, because that was a big source of connection a generation ago.

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<v Speaker 1>If we look at the 1970s, another one is that the wealth disparity has grown and at least in the United States, people are just working a lot.

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<v Speaker 1>I like to point out people who are surprised by this that when the Simpsons were released in the 1990s, by design Homer Simpson was the median of the American wealth experience Single earner, no college education, three kids, owned two cars, went on vacations, owned their own home.

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<v Speaker 1>Three kids owned two cars, went on vacations, owned their own home.

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<v Speaker 1>Neither you or I, brad, think that if we tell our kids expect to own a home, have one earner, two cars and afford to raise three kids in America with one job, without a college degree, that's going to happen.

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<v Speaker 1>It's just not going to happen.

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<v Speaker 1>So Americans are working more and more Americans are working in the household to keep that lifestyle going than it was just the 1990s.

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<v Speaker 1>And guess what?

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<v Speaker 1>There's less time for, as Bob Putnam put it, bowling leagues and picnics.

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<v Speaker 2>And our kids are doing 10 times more stupid.

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<v Speaker 2>We don't have our own bowling leagues, we got our kids' damn bowling leagues.

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<v Speaker 1>So we're busy is one way way to put it.

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<v Speaker 1>And then, of course, what you and I haven't yet touched on, which we all know is the elephant in the room, is social media and the technology literally designed to grab our attention and it looks like connection, but we know from the research that having connections on social media doesn't actually improve our life experience.

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<v Speaker 1>We know that a single digit of real friends in our real lives dramatically improves the quality of our life.

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<v Speaker 1>So we have Americans starting their teenage years or earlier spending time on digital media.

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<v Speaker 1>That's not improving the quality of their life and connection and there's a zero sum gain at some level.

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<v Speaker 1>And then you wake up in your mid thirties and you're in the loneliest era of American history and you haven't been, as I put, putting in the reps to have the conversations that lead to the friendships that make a really rich and rewarding life.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I got one good friend of mine and he just doesn't do social media.

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<v Speaker 2>But we have lunch every month.

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<v Speaker 2>You know he he just will not do social media but every month with all his friends and every Friday.

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<v Speaker 2>Every Friday he's at the same restaurant for lunch and all his friends that ever he just everyone's invited every Friday.

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<v Speaker 2>It's just his thing.

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<v Speaker 1>It's like and my guess is his life is truly fantastic, he he definitely has a very high emotionally fulfilled life.

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<v Speaker 2>That is very true.

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<v Speaker 2>How does someone stop to move in the right direction then, if someone says, okay, holy shit, you're talking about me, you know that's me.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, with some irony, you've already referenced such great role modeling just in this conversation, without any effort.

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<v Speaker 1>So you asked earlier, Brad, when you and I were talking about like, how did this start, how did I gain this sophistication and also how it's relevant to business.

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<v Speaker 1>So, as a young man living in New York City and I wanted to be a filmmaker except I'd never made a film before and I didn't have a rich father who was going to pay for any film I wanted to make and so I just had to start at the beginning.

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<v Speaker 1>And I know you started at the beginning, brad, right.

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<v Speaker 1>And when you start at the beginning, you start thinking, well, who do I need to meet and learn from?

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<v Speaker 1>That's going to help me learn, what I need to learn to do this thing.

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<v Speaker 1>And there was a friend in my community named Lolita, and she was a very powerful person in the New York political scene and I won't go into details about that for political reasons Very powerful and she learned that I was working on making a film that would eventually become a PBS film about genocide survivors becoming Americans, and she wanted to help me succeed, and so she mentored me and she told me wisdom, brad, that has carried with me now for well over 20 years.

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<v Speaker 1>And she said, charles, when you meet people, meeting people in a large event, a cocktail party, an alumni event, a wedding reception that's fine, but it doesn't count in building the relationship.

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<v Speaker 1>You have to build a relationship in an intimate experience.

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<v Speaker 1>A walk in Central Park, a coffee in Upper East Side, a dinner, having a three-hour concert with Brad Sugars where you share drinks and laugh really hard together, sitting at a restaurant for lunch every month.

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<v Speaker 1>And she said and when you meet someone, don't ask them for anything for at least three intimate experiences, because you got to build a relationship right, you got to find shared values and you just have to find shared interests.

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<v Speaker 1>And maybe they won't be there and you won't have three experiences.

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<v Speaker 1>But, charles, as you're looking for support for this filmmaking, just know you're not going to ask for the first three intimate experiences.

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<v Speaker 1>And since, charles, you know you're not going to ask, don't worry about it and instead you get just to ask about them and learn about them.

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<v Speaker 2>You're not worried about it.

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<v Speaker 2>That's massive, Because you're not going to ask for anything.

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<v Speaker 2>There's no pressure.

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<v Speaker 1>Exactly right.

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<v Speaker 1>And guess what, Brad, I started gaining all these reps sitting down with people I wanted to know better, who at some level shared my interests, which is why they wanted to have a lunch with me or a walk in the park and have these fantastic conversations.

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<v Speaker 1>And guess what?

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<v Speaker 1>Not all of them were great, but they didn't all need to be great.

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<v Speaker 1>I just got better and I'm often approached when I'm speaking.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, what if I'm an introvert?

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<v Speaker 1>What if I don't want to have lots of events?

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<v Speaker 1>I say you know what Introverts have friends.

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<v Speaker 1>And if you like walking in a park Central Park is a great example you can invite one person to walk Central Park with you and have only the conversation you want to have.

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<v Speaker 1>Person to walk Central Park with you and have only the conversation you want to have.

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<v Speaker 1>So there's one more layer to this, Brad, that you're going to love, because I know like you like to get things done, you like strategies, and she said so.

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<v Speaker 1>Charles, if you know that the community you want to build is going to happen from intimate experiences coffees, walks in the park or lunches with Brad Sugars then you got to go to your calendar and you need to mark it.

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<v Speaker 1>And if you have 12 a year, you're going to have less results than if you have 24 a year, and if you have 50 a year, you're going to have more results than if you have 24 a year.

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<v Speaker 1>So, starting that conversation with that mentor, I went to my calendar and every Friday night, from six o'clock to eight o'clock every Friday, was blocked off in building friendships.

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<v Speaker 1>And then every Sunday, from five o'clock to eight o'clock, was blocked off building friendships.

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<v Speaker 1>And if I show you my calendar right now, Brad, I don't know what I'm going to be doing in July of 2026.

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<v Speaker 1>But here's what I do know I've already blocked off two days a week in the evenings to make friendships.

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<v Speaker 1>That can be building stronger friendships with my neighbors.

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<v Speaker 1>That can be building new friendships that Brad Sugar introduced me to.

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<v Speaker 1>That could be exploring a relationship I met in an alumni event and it seems like there could be something interesting.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, imagine how my life changed when in my late 20s, when, in my late 20s, I started creating over 100 intimate experiences a year only doing things I like to do Walk in Central Park, have a burrito on the Upper East Side, right, With only people.

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<v Speaker 1>I want to know better and guess what, Brad, Some of them thought I was boring or silly and never want to talk to me.

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe I wasn't prestigious enough, but that didn't matter.

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<v Speaker 1>And you said how does this work in business?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, we know that when we're in business, you can only create so much result on our own, working hard.

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<v Speaker 1>And maybe that's a ton, but we know it's limited.

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<v Speaker 1>So one way to think of a business is how are we building a team?

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<v Speaker 1>And if that team cares about each other's concerns which the best teams do, high-performing teams do that would be a community.

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<v Speaker 1>And I write about brand communities, right?

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<v Speaker 1>So if we want to build a team, that's going to become a community.

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<v Speaker 1>And let's pretend I'm as industrious as Brad Sugars and I got an alert in my phone that says every day I need to make two phone calls to invite somebody to share dim sum sometime this week Not spend all day, but 90 minutes on Friday.

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<v Speaker 1>So I make 10 phone calls a week, right?

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<v Speaker 1>Just to see if anybody's going to share dim sum with me, some with me.

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<v Speaker 1>And let's pretend, Brad, that 90% of those people say Charles, I can't believe you called me to share a meal because you want to build a relationship that could be fruitful in my life.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm sick and tired of you reaching out in this generosity.

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<v Speaker 1>You have not asking me for anything.

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<v Speaker 1>Never call again.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's pretend that happens, Okay?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, you know, Brad, that at the end of the year I'm going to have 50 new relationships 50.

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<v Speaker 1>And let's pretend that two thirds of them said Charles, you know you're a nice guy, but you're really boring, and I only want to know prestigious people, the kind of people that hang out with Brad Shiggers and talk about expertise on his podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>And you're not that guy, Right?

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<v Speaker 1>So what's one third of 50,?

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<v Speaker 1>Right, Half would be 25.

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<v Speaker 1>So we're talking about 20.

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<v Speaker 1>You know if, from age 30 to age 33, you've created 60 professional contacts that know that you didn't ask for anything from them when you met them.

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<v Speaker 1>You actually wanted to know them better.

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<v Speaker 1>You actually took time to get to know them, that you actually learned what's going on in their lives and thought, if you could help, you're going to know them better.

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<v Speaker 1>You actually took time to get to know them, that you actually learned what's going on in their lives and thought, if you could help, you're going to be largely unstoppable in your field in three years, and all you have to do air quote here all you have to do is take the time to only talk to people that you want to know better, to do things that you want to do, and have a conversation you want to have, knowing you're not asking them for anything, for at least three conversations and we'll see if it comes up on the floor.

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<v Speaker 2>Buddy, when we first met it was at my kid's school.

00:18:12.689 --> 00:18:14.973
<v Speaker 2>The school is a great school.

00:18:14.973 --> 00:18:29.914
<v Speaker 2>They invite great speakers in and they invited you in to speak and you taught me something that day the difference between I forget the word, but it was an invitation and an announcement.

00:18:29.914 --> 00:18:42.372
<v Speaker 2>I'd love you to take more depth on that, because I know when we throw, like when my wife barbecues a pig you know it's a 21 hour cook we have to invite literally every single human being.

00:18:42.372 --> 00:18:50.230
<v Speaker 2>We know to eat the 200 pounds of meat type thing, but then when we do a dinner in the wine cellar, it seats 10 people.

00:18:50.230 --> 00:18:53.971
<v Speaker 2>There's a different invitation type thing.

00:18:53.971 --> 00:19:00.393
<v Speaker 2>I think that too many people do announcements rather than invitations today.

00:19:00.393 --> 00:19:02.487
<v Speaker 2>Is that a thing or is that I don't know?

00:19:02.547 --> 00:19:17.468
<v Speaker 1>It's definitely a thing, and that's why you know, that's why, brad, I have to talk about this, and I know that we're the same is that we literally fly around the world that say things that are relevant to audiences, and these things are so obvious to us that we're confused, that people need to hear it.

00:19:17.468 --> 00:19:23.630
<v Speaker 1>And this definitely counts as one of those things, because once you know it, you're like well, obviously that's true.

00:19:23.630 --> 00:19:26.878
<v Speaker 1>One of those things Because once you know it, you're like, well, obviously, that's true.

00:19:26.878 --> 00:19:34.811
<v Speaker 1>So, for the purposes of my life, of my work, an invitation is a request to spend time where the person invited knows that someone cares if they show up.

00:19:34.811 --> 00:19:37.803
<v Speaker 1>I'll say that again because it's important.

00:19:37.803 --> 00:19:42.846
<v Speaker 1>It's a request to spend time where someone knows if someone cares, if they show up.

00:19:42.846 --> 00:19:47.165
<v Speaker 1>And, by the way, we just talked about creating 50 intimate experiences a year.

00:19:47.165 --> 00:19:54.686
<v Speaker 1>Well, if nobody knows if you care if they show up, why would they want to come and walk Central Park or share a burrito or roast pork?

00:19:56.056 --> 00:20:04.181
<v Speaker 1>So, for the purposes of making that distinction, the opposite where you say that you have an event but nobody knows if you care, is an announcement.

00:20:04.181 --> 00:20:09.825
<v Speaker 1>And this is so important because I go to organizations and they say, gee, we want to get more parents involved in the school.

00:20:09.825 --> 00:20:14.727
<v Speaker 1>Or gee, we want to get our employees to come and spend time and build relationships, so there's trust.

00:20:14.727 --> 00:20:22.126
<v Speaker 1>Or gee, we have these warfighters and we want their families to connect better, support each other on the home side when they're downrange.

00:20:22.126 --> 00:20:24.210
<v Speaker 1>And I say, well, what are you inviting them to?

00:20:24.210 --> 00:20:35.949
<v Speaker 1>And I've actually been in a conversation where it goes something like well, in October we send out a mass email to this event and I say, okay, well, I see where the problem's starting.

00:20:35.949 --> 00:20:52.859
<v Speaker 1>Now maybe there's other things to handle, but if you're not inviting anybody to anything that they want to come to, let us not be surprised they're not coming together and creating relationships that you're aspiring for them to create, be it among warfighters, parents or highly technical, sought out professionals.

00:20:52.881 --> 00:20:54.965
<v Speaker 2>But even marketing is like that, charles.

00:20:54.965 --> 00:20:55.847
<v Speaker 2>I see people.

00:20:55.847 --> 00:21:15.885
<v Speaker 2>They do their marketing and instead of inviting the perfect prospect to an event and giving them an actual invitation, which is a follow-up thing, and inviting 10 perfect prospects, they send the thing out to 10,000 people and hope Well and this is a good point.

00:21:15.925 --> 00:21:17.165
<v Speaker 1>To go deeper on this, brad.

00:21:17.165 --> 00:21:20.845
<v Speaker 1>One of the things that makes an invitation powerful is it's inefficient.

00:21:20.845 --> 00:21:24.694
<v Speaker 1>To go deeper on this, brad one of the things that makes an invitation powerful is it's inefficient.

00:21:24.694 --> 00:21:30.067
<v Speaker 1>If Brad Sugars has to call me and say, charles, I'm only inviting eight people to join me and my wife to my wine cellar, I've only got eight empty seats.

00:21:30.067 --> 00:21:34.560
<v Speaker 1>Unless I ask my wife to stand right, I'd love for you to come.

00:21:34.560 --> 00:21:36.905
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, oh wow, brad really wants me to come.

00:21:36.905 --> 00:21:37.867
<v Speaker 1>Right.

00:21:41.815 --> 00:21:45.263
<v Speaker 1>If I get an email with a CCs of 200 of Brad's favorite friend in the Las Vegas area and it says we're roasting a pig, you should come.

00:21:45.263 --> 00:21:47.916
<v Speaker 1>You know, I might have fun.

00:21:47.916 --> 00:21:52.596
<v Speaker 1>My wife might love eating more roasted pig because she's Southeast Asian and everything with pork on it is better.

00:21:52.596 --> 00:21:57.340
<v Speaker 1>But that's not a powerful invitation, right?

00:21:57.340 --> 00:21:58.501
<v Speaker 1>And?

00:21:58.501 --> 00:22:04.067
<v Speaker 1>And Brad and Brad if he was lazy and I know you're not would say, yeah, charles, but I don't want to call 200 friends.

00:22:04.087 --> 00:22:05.068
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, yeah, I know.

00:22:05.068 --> 00:22:14.739
<v Speaker 1>That's why when you call me and say I'm roasting a pig and I really love you to be there, I haven't met your wife and my wife wants to meet her.

00:22:14.739 --> 00:22:15.799
<v Speaker 1>Boom, like okay, whatever was happening on Saturday.

00:22:15.799 --> 00:22:17.903
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to see if we can postpone that, because Brad just called me.

00:22:17.903 --> 00:22:21.888
<v Speaker 1>Now it may not be a phone call, maybe some other way, but you get the idea.

00:22:21.888 --> 00:22:34.247
<v Speaker 1>Invitations are inefficient, and so I hate it when business people talk to me about bringing people together they care about be that internally or externally the organization and they say, yeah, yeah, but I want to make this cheap and easy.

00:22:34.934 --> 00:22:36.597
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and even team building.

00:22:36.597 --> 00:22:40.886
<v Speaker 2>You must, as a leader, spend one-on-one time with your people.

00:22:40.886 --> 00:22:46.242
<v Speaker 2>You got it it kills me that I see leaders who they're like.

00:22:46.242 --> 00:22:48.087
<v Speaker 2>Oh, I'm leading my people, okay.

00:22:48.087 --> 00:22:52.996
<v Speaker 2>Well, when you do one-on-one meetings with them, well, I don't do one-on-one meetings with them, we meet as a team.

00:22:52.996 --> 00:22:55.682
<v Speaker 2>Then you're not building relationships with your people.

00:22:56.123 --> 00:23:00.247
<v Speaker 1>Well, I totally agree with you and I want to go deeper on that.

00:23:00.247 --> 00:23:12.701
<v Speaker 1>The reason it's not happening is we're not creating a context that's safe enough for them to bring up the stuff they don't want to say in front of peers that might be competing with them hang on, hang on, hang on.

00:23:12.721 --> 00:23:25.721
<v Speaker 1>That is important, let's go into that one if you're not having the one-on-ones, you're not creating a context safe enough for them to possibly share the things that they want to share, that are so vulnerable.

00:23:25.721 --> 00:23:30.018
<v Speaker 1>They don't want colleagues who are competing with them to know or hear it.

00:23:31.101 --> 00:23:40.183
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and in our one-on-one meetings we have a format called Lion Last week, meaning the current week, issues opportunities and next week.

00:23:40.183 --> 00:23:46.537
<v Speaker 2>So in issues, there's an actual spot where we say, okay, what happened, what's going wrong, what's you know?

00:23:46.537 --> 00:23:53.910
<v Speaker 2>Like there's an actual time for bringing up negatives or issues.

00:23:54.435 --> 00:24:00.023
<v Speaker 1>Well, and Brad, I know you got several kids and I know that you're a high performer and you only hire high performers when you can right.

00:24:00.023 --> 00:24:10.586
<v Speaker 1>You and I both know when one kid gets a bad diagnosis, attention at work changes Full stop.

00:24:10.586 --> 00:24:19.803
<v Speaker 1>Do you want to know if the third highest performer in your global organization has got a sick kid at home that's involving blood tests and doctor visits you do.

00:24:19.803 --> 00:24:21.011
<v Speaker 1>And so if you don't give them room to say, hey, I've got a seat on at home, that's involving blood tests and doctor visits you do.

00:24:21.011 --> 00:24:29.435
<v Speaker 1>And so if you don't give them a room to say, hey, I've got a scene in college this week, we're waiting for blood tests, if you don't give them a venue to say that or create a relationship, that's safe enough.

00:24:29.435 --> 00:24:30.119
<v Speaker 1>That can be said.

00:24:30.119 --> 00:24:31.910
<v Speaker 1>Like you know, they're a high performer.

00:24:31.910 --> 00:24:34.056
<v Speaker 1>You know that when they get past this they're going to come back.

00:24:34.056 --> 00:24:36.740
<v Speaker 1>But hey, these next six months are going to get kind of hairy.

00:24:36.740 --> 00:24:39.103
<v Speaker 1>You got to create a venue for that.

00:24:39.502 --> 00:24:48.934
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I remember having one manager in one of my companies and she people she wouldn't approve PTO unless she had two weeks notice.

00:24:48.934 --> 00:24:53.007
<v Speaker 2>And I walked in one day and one of the staff was like I'm ready to quit.

00:24:53.007 --> 00:24:53.999
<v Speaker 2>And I'm like what do you mean?

00:24:53.999 --> 00:24:54.682
<v Speaker 2>You're ready to quit?

00:24:54.682 --> 00:24:58.625
<v Speaker 2>Well, my kid needs a doctor and I have to go and she won't give me time off.

00:24:58.625 --> 00:24:59.900
<v Speaker 2>Just go.

00:24:59.900 --> 00:25:02.538
<v Speaker 2>And I'm like if your kidney?

00:25:02.538 --> 00:25:04.645
<v Speaker 2>And I walked over to the man I said what's going on?

00:25:04.645 --> 00:25:06.080
<v Speaker 2>Well, they didn't give two weeks notice.

00:25:06.080 --> 00:25:08.619
<v Speaker 2>Who cares their kid's sick?

00:25:08.619 --> 00:25:12.285
<v Speaker 2>Like, be human for a minute, you know.

00:25:12.285 --> 00:25:14.241
<v Speaker 2>So, yes, I get that.

00:25:14.241 --> 00:25:18.326
<v Speaker 2>I want to go back to where we started this whole thing.

00:25:18.326 --> 00:25:26.422
<v Speaker 2>Someone's sitting in a space of loneliness and I want to touch on it mostly.

00:25:26.422 --> 00:25:34.000
<v Speaker 2>Um, for the people that it actually seems to hit harder than most, and that is men.

00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:38.047
<v Speaker 2>Um, because they'll never admit to it.

00:25:38.047 --> 00:25:49.696
<v Speaker 2>Men never admit that there's something happening, they don't admit that there's a loneliness, so that there's a struggle inside until it's too late well, I'm going to push back on that.

00:25:50.057 --> 00:25:57.599
<v Speaker 1>we see different cultures among men in america and there is a subculture in america that's large called the honor culture.

00:25:57.599 --> 00:26:12.180
<v Speaker 1>Uh, and and this came out of research by Professor Brown out of Brandeis University and that's where we find men who don't want to share vulnerability for fear of dishonoring themselves.

00:26:12.180 --> 00:26:21.256
<v Speaker 1>And because they don't share that, of course they don't get the support that they literally need, and we've seen very dire mental health and physical consequences out of that.

00:26:21.256 --> 00:26:24.042
<v Speaker 1>So it's not that all men are that way.

00:26:24.042 --> 00:26:33.602
<v Speaker 1>It's that some men are in a culture that don't give them permission to share the vulnerabilities that they need to share to get the support that's, in many cases, actually killing them.

00:26:34.262 --> 00:26:37.838
<v Speaker 2>How does a guy understand that that's okay to step out of that then?

00:26:38.460 --> 00:26:56.044
<v Speaker 1>What I understand works is creating a space where the rules change with men so that they can share that, and it's usually framed in the sense of coming together in a space that's safe to be strong.

00:26:56.865 --> 00:27:27.567
<v Speaker 1>So, for example, there's wonderful work being done with veterans around the country where they're're going retreats or they go to campfires, they go on hunting trips and of course, you know, brad, if we take I'm not a veteran, I've obviously worked with veterans on this If I go with veterans on a trip away from friends, colleagues, girlfriends, spouses, right, and a leader, a host, is brave enough to say I want you to know that after what I saw downrange, I'm really wrestling with stuff.

00:27:27.714 --> 00:27:34.961
<v Speaker 1>My marriage isn't looking good and my kids are angry with me and, quite frankly, I can't even sleep a full night, and then they don't get beat up.

00:27:34.961 --> 00:27:41.721
<v Speaker 1>Then it creates a space for others to say, well, actually I don't sleep either, right, and whatever else comes up.

00:27:41.721 --> 00:27:50.671
<v Speaker 1>And then the host needs to hold the line on what the rules of that space is that people don't get beat up for sharing that for the first time.

00:27:50.671 --> 00:28:14.667
<v Speaker 1>And by getting away then they're escaping the standards of the culture that say men can't share these things Because this is a small group of men and intimate experience of men in a space where they're setting new rules for that group, and that's an intimate experience and then that's when someone can say this is a problem and help can count.

00:28:16.015 --> 00:28:16.816
<v Speaker 2>So it keeps coming.

00:28:16.816 --> 00:28:30.299
<v Speaker 2>I keep hearing you come back to this intimate experience thing, whether it's an intimate experience between men in that situation, customers, staff, team I keep hearing this.

00:28:31.414 --> 00:29:02.700
<v Speaker 1>Well, unfortunately, I think I need to keep seeing this, brad, because you and I live in an era where media is distracting us, and especially those of us who are professionals and I'm sure you hear this from your marketing team hey, brad, if you're actually good, if you're actually worth listening to, there needs to be lots of stuff showing what a big deal you are, and every photograph they want to show and every video they want to show of you is what a big deal you are, which is the opposite of Brad sitting and drinking wine with eight friends and laughing really hard.

00:29:04.085 --> 00:29:22.546
<v Speaker 1>And we both know that when any of your kids has a medical emergency and you need help emotionally, logistically, as a parent, all of the people you're going to call happen in those wine cellar type experiences All of them.

00:29:22.546 --> 00:29:28.086
<v Speaker 1>So we you and I need to teach people who want the kind of success that Brad Sugar has is okay.

00:29:28.086 --> 00:29:32.707
<v Speaker 1>You can admire Brad Sugar and there are lots of pictures of him in front of giant rooms and exotic spaces.

00:29:32.707 --> 00:29:42.898
<v Speaker 1>The reason Brad Sugar's life works as well as it does is he's smart enough to make actual invitations to a wine cellar where he literally can't get 11 people in there comfortably.

00:29:43.681 --> 00:29:47.528
<v Speaker 2>It's such an interesting thing building community.

00:29:47.528 --> 00:29:57.221
<v Speaker 2>My wife and I were driving home the other night from an event and two of our friends were at another event.

00:29:57.221 --> 00:30:06.646
<v Speaker 2>We'd only introduced the two of them, I don't know a month or two before and she was like I'm so happy they hit it off and they became friends.

00:30:06.646 --> 00:30:22.431
<v Speaker 2>The reason it came up, charles, is because we had another friend who got really upset when two of the people she introduced became friends and went somewhere without her.

00:30:22.431 --> 00:30:26.643
<v Speaker 2>I just want to get into that subject a little bit.

00:30:27.124 --> 00:30:29.016
<v Speaker 1>I'm glad you did so.

00:30:29.016 --> 00:30:31.284
<v Speaker 1>There's a couple of ways we could talk about it.

00:30:31.284 --> 00:30:33.323
<v Speaker 1>But here's one thing I've already learned about your wife.

00:30:33.323 --> 00:30:40.969
<v Speaker 1>She's confident about her importance in the world and the value she provides to her friends.

00:30:40.969 --> 00:30:46.025
<v Speaker 1>She knows that she's valuable in the world and that her friends appreciate her.

00:30:46.025 --> 00:30:47.027
<v Speaker 1>She knows it.

00:30:47.027 --> 00:30:48.037
<v Speaker 1>She doesn't need more proof.

00:30:48.037 --> 00:30:57.259
<v Speaker 1>So when she sees her friends have a richer life, she's excited that her community got richer.

00:30:59.362 --> 00:31:13.707
<v Speaker 1>If your wife was concerned that life is a competition and she wants to be popular and she doesn't know if she's winning, then when somebody else votes with their time to spend time with someone who's not your wife now she gets afraid and that fear looks like anger.

00:31:13.707 --> 00:31:22.637
<v Speaker 1>But what she's really angry about is maybe she's not so important that she gets to do all the fun things with the people who are doing fun things.

00:31:22.637 --> 00:31:29.218
<v Speaker 1>So it's about confidence, and that confidence allows generosity.

00:31:29.218 --> 00:31:40.318
<v Speaker 1>And, brad, I know you have a globally successful business life and we even talked for a number of times now, and I know that you want to work with people that you perceive as generous.

00:31:40.318 --> 00:31:47.897
<v Speaker 1>For example, you find out a manager won't let someone take their kid to a doctor and your question is what is going on here?

00:31:47.897 --> 00:31:52.871
<v Speaker 1>And that's because you're confident that your employees and your business are going to work.

00:31:52.871 --> 00:32:00.211
<v Speaker 1>If Brad lets an employee go extemporaneously to take care of a family member simply because they said that needs to happen, good enough.

00:32:01.119 --> 00:32:05.531
<v Speaker 2>Now I remember in one company someone put in a time clock at the front.

00:32:05.531 --> 00:32:08.108
<v Speaker 2>I went what is that?

00:32:08.108 --> 00:32:10.326
<v Speaker 2>What's a time clock?

00:32:10.326 --> 00:32:14.807
<v Speaker 2>I went why Do we not trust our people?

00:32:14.807 --> 00:32:16.566
<v Speaker 2>Get rid of that.

00:32:16.566 --> 00:32:18.948
<v Speaker 2>That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

00:32:19.740 --> 00:32:29.867
<v Speaker 1>Well, and you know exactly, if you start tracking people's time, exactly what they're going to deliver to you and what, then they're not going to deliver for you because they're delivering the thing you're measuring.

00:32:30.480 --> 00:32:31.304
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they're going to deliver less.

00:32:31.304 --> 00:33:01.451
<v Speaker 2>So I want to go back to that, that jealousy thing, because I know, and I'm gonna admit something here uh, when we had kids and my wife's time that used to be mine got taken away, there was a period in my world where I was like jealous of my kids as a dad or as a husband, and it was like I'm not, I'm not liking this.

00:33:01.451 --> 00:33:25.188
<v Speaker 2>You know, I'm no longer the most important and it took me and, and luckily, my coach at the time, my, my coach Sid, doc, sid had I don't know maybe nine kids, 27 grandkids, and he looked at me and he went seriously and we had a good conversation about it.

00:33:25.188 --> 00:33:37.260
<v Speaker 2>But that jealousy of kids, friends, how does one, in your opinion either, move through that, because it also happens in the workplace?

00:33:38.702 --> 00:33:40.326
<v Speaker 1>Well, we call that maturity, Brad.

00:33:40.326 --> 00:33:46.060
<v Speaker 1>I mean, you're laughing and let's be serious about this.

00:33:46.060 --> 00:33:52.653
<v Speaker 1>You matured as a father by getting through that chapter and I know you matured through it because you can talk about it now, right, not defensively.

00:33:52.653 --> 00:33:57.026
<v Speaker 1>Oh, I know you matured through it because you can talk about it now, right, not defensively.

00:33:57.488 --> 00:34:00.181
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, there's a lot of dads like, especially young dads.

00:34:00.181 --> 00:34:04.992
<v Speaker 2>When I say to them, listen, you're going to, you're going to feel loss when you have kids.

00:34:04.992 --> 00:34:10.829
<v Speaker 2>You're going to have the joy of the kid, but you're going to feel loss of your wife and you have to marry the two somehow.

00:34:11.411 --> 00:34:14.681
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I recently heard some wisdom that said all growth happens through struggle.

00:34:14.681 --> 00:34:17.286
<v Speaker 1>We could also say suffering.

00:34:17.286 --> 00:34:18.909
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if that's true.

00:34:18.909 --> 00:34:21.802
<v Speaker 1>You and I know that that's very often true.

00:34:22.182 --> 00:34:32.804
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, if you go back to perturbation, which is third law of thermonuclear dynamics, there must be pressure for there to be growth.

00:34:32.804 --> 00:34:37.271
<v Speaker 2>So I don't know if it's suffering, but there has to be pressure for there to be serious growth.

00:34:37.271 --> 00:34:46.121
<v Speaker 2>So where there is no pressure, there is no growth.

00:34:46.121 --> 00:34:53.706
<v Speaker 2>But it's how much pressure you put yourself under is the interesting question, and whether you're willing to put yourself into pressure situations and whether that's putting a team under pressure, yourself under pressure, your family under pressure.

00:34:53.706 --> 00:34:56.128
<v Speaker 2>And I know, even in our personal life.

00:34:56.128 --> 00:35:17.902
<v Speaker 2>It was a time where my wife and I went back and looked at our life based on major moments per year, and we found that there was not a quarter in our life where there wasn't a major moment like moving house, a dog, a kid Do you know what I mean?

00:35:17.902 --> 00:35:21.550
<v Speaker 2>And it was like no wonder we're stressed all the time.

00:35:21.550 --> 00:35:22.913
<v Speaker 2>Look at all of these things.

00:35:22.913 --> 00:35:27.311
<v Speaker 2>We need to be in a less is more mindset for a little while.

00:35:29.902 --> 00:35:37.146
<v Speaker 1>So you said how to get past that and the answer is notice where we can be more generous and also get what we need.

00:35:37.146 --> 00:35:39.489
<v Speaker 1>And you mentioned creating the Handsome Men's Club.

00:35:39.489 --> 00:35:56.141
<v Speaker 1>My guess is part of your investment in that is recognizing I need friendships that will be supportive to me while I'm maturing as a father and a business professional and a civic citizen professional and a civic citizen.

00:35:56.141 --> 00:35:56.762
<v Speaker 1>And guess what it turns out?

00:35:56.762 --> 00:35:59.710
<v Speaker 1>My wife, who used to provide much of that before we had all these kids, can't provide that.

00:35:59.710 --> 00:35:59.989
<v Speaker 1>God bless her.

00:35:59.989 --> 00:36:10.155
<v Speaker 1>And so you invested, you matured in convening the people you needed, and you and I both know that the reason the Handsome Men's Club works at all is because you never approached it.

00:36:10.155 --> 00:36:14.168
<v Speaker 1>Well, I'm going to invite men who can give me things and I'm going to see how much I can get out of them.

00:36:14.688 --> 00:36:16.112
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, no, it's the opposite, it's.

00:36:16.112 --> 00:36:42.414
<v Speaker 2>It's uh, it's bring together a group of guys who literally can have a beer on a Friday, talk about being masters of the universe and, uh, you know, just make sure that we all feel good about each other and if something's going wrong, and and also a group text where there's dumb stuff that we send each other and if something's going wrong, and and also a group text where there's dumb stuff that we send each other and political jokes and you know, and sports, and yeah, just just that crazy group.

00:36:42.414 --> 00:36:49.268
<v Speaker 2>I think group texts are a wonderful way of creating community today.

00:36:49.268 --> 00:36:52.273
<v Speaker 2>That that just allows that ease.

00:36:52.273 --> 00:36:53.614
<v Speaker 2>Community that starts.

00:36:57.820 --> 00:37:19.126
<v Speaker 1>Well, I'm going to push back and say that the group texts are a fantastic accessory to the investment you made in in-person time, generous listing, genuine inquiry and a genuine generous relationship to them, and after all that was in place, the group texts were really helpful.

00:37:20.019 --> 00:37:21.045
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it keeps people moving.

00:37:21.045 --> 00:37:28.965
<v Speaker 2>But it's funny how the group text turns into the individual text when you notice something in it, like one of the guys says something and you go hey, dude, what's going on?

00:37:28.965 --> 00:37:31.288
<v Speaker 2>You know you jump on the outside of it.

00:37:31.380 --> 00:37:41.351
<v Speaker 1>But well, let's note, Brad, that's a more intimate conversation, so it's funny that you recognize when something's actually a problem.

00:37:41.351 --> 00:37:45.690
<v Speaker 1>You defaulted to creating a more intimate experience to see if you can be helpful.

00:37:46.711 --> 00:37:48.206
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, I think you just have to.

00:37:48.206 --> 00:37:56.536
<v Speaker 2>It's a challenge today to maintain friendships because it's work.

00:37:56.536 --> 00:38:01.947
<v Speaker 2>And that's where I think a lot of people see and I see this too often.

00:38:01.947 --> 00:38:04.231
<v Speaker 2>You know, I've made a like.

00:38:04.231 --> 00:38:13.643
<v Speaker 2>I saw this stupid thing at the start of the year people saying I'm only going to put time into people who put time into me If they don't reach out, I'm not going to reach out to them.

00:38:13.643 --> 00:38:24.742
<v Speaker 2>Well, if everyone did that on the planet, all of a sudden no one's got friends, like, come on, you've got to put in the time and energy to make friends, work with friends, keep friends, build the relationships.

00:38:25.525 --> 00:38:28.650
<v Speaker 1>We have to judge what we can invest in.

00:38:28.650 --> 00:38:31.226
<v Speaker 1>Because I think you're right, brad, and I'm in the same circle you have.

00:38:31.226 --> 00:38:33.556
<v Speaker 1>I'm constantly inviting because I have 100 events.

00:38:33.556 --> 00:38:34.981
<v Speaker 1>You're right, brad, and I'm in the same circle you have.

00:38:34.981 --> 00:38:36.849
<v Speaker 1>I'm constantly inviting because I have a hundred events.

00:38:36.849 --> 00:38:44.652
<v Speaker 1>I want to spend time with people I care about and are near me, and there are people I have noticed that if in three years you invite me to nothing, you check in to me about nothing.

00:38:46.922 --> 00:38:59.347
<v Speaker 1>You think that our entire relationship is I host events you'd like to attend and tell me how great they are, then I've only got so many hours a week and I'm going to find the friends who have a richer relationship.

00:38:59.347 --> 00:39:11.266
<v Speaker 1>So, in all seriousness, my wife and I host, very conservatively, 50 dinner parties a year and that's very conservative and we don't have a wine cellar with 10 seats but they're nice.

00:39:11.266 --> 00:39:23.907
<v Speaker 1>But my point is there are people that were invited by a friend and they were so happy to meet us and love coming and then I noticed after years I never got invited to any event that they went to.

00:39:23.907 --> 00:39:26.231
<v Speaker 1>You know, did they go to museum night?

00:39:26.231 --> 00:39:28.623
<v Speaker 1>Did they go to a folk uh concert?

00:39:28.623 --> 00:39:33.880
<v Speaker 1>Did they go to a um, a cultural event in san francisco, and did they ever just shoot me?

00:39:33.880 --> 00:39:34.844
<v Speaker 1>Note this is'm going to this.

00:39:34.844 --> 00:39:35.646
<v Speaker 1>Would you like to join me?

00:39:35.646 --> 00:39:36.548
<v Speaker 1>We love spending time with you.

00:39:36.548 --> 00:39:45.208
<v Speaker 1>If the answer is no, then after three years, I want to invest in friendships that will develop into something other than you like me hosting dinner parties.

00:39:45.460 --> 00:39:46.666
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I call them out on it.

00:39:46.666 --> 00:39:49.684
<v Speaker 2>I literally will call my friends out when that happens.

00:39:49.684 --> 00:39:54.052
<v Speaker 2>And you know, sometimes I just I know one of my buddies I called him out on.

00:39:54.052 --> 00:40:00.347
<v Speaker 2>He says, dude, I can't, I'm embarrassed to have you to my house.

00:40:00.347 --> 00:40:02.456
<v Speaker 2>Well, I said I'm embarrassed to call you a friend If you're embarrassed to have me at your house.

00:40:02.456 --> 00:40:19.675
<v Speaker 2>I said you know, if you think that coming to your house is about what you have and all of those sorts of things, then our friendship's got to shift and he said, yeah, you're right, and so he invited me over and we had a great time and it's like it doesn't matter what, it just matters who and how often, sort of thing.

00:40:20.398 --> 00:40:22.023
<v Speaker 1>Well, I also want to add to this conversation.

00:40:22.023 --> 00:40:28.550
<v Speaker 1>I think that's wonderful that you could tell your friend look, I'm not there to judge your house, I'm here to build a friendship and that's what's important to me.

00:40:28.550 --> 00:40:42.492
<v Speaker 1>We need to also acknowledge there are people who live with a lot of roommates, and a lot of them might be messy, or people who have sick relatives in their home, and having you over while their in-laws are struggling with terminal cancer is not a good idea.

00:40:42.492 --> 00:40:45.927
<v Speaker 1>For example, I live in San Francisco.

00:40:45.927 --> 00:40:49.949
<v Speaker 1>There are lots of museums, and museums often have evening events with food trucks or a band.

00:40:51.231 --> 00:40:51.672
<v Speaker 1>You know what?

00:40:51.672 --> 00:40:57.152
<v Speaker 1>It's literally free to go to a museum and sit in a courtyard and listen to a free band.

00:40:57.152 --> 00:41:03.945
<v Speaker 1>And if I get a message saying, hey, brad Sugar says, hey, we're going to go to this museum and we're just going to see if this jazz band is any good.

00:41:03.945 --> 00:41:07.664
<v Speaker 1>We'd love for you to join me An invitation, we'd love for you to join us.

00:41:07.664 --> 00:41:17.385
<v Speaker 1>Then I'm like, wow, well, you know, I don't know if Brad's house is under construction, but we can sit in a courtyard of a museum on a Friday evening and enjoy beverages, that's free.

00:41:17.405 --> 00:41:19.148
<v Speaker 2>Well, hey there and thanks for listening.

00:41:19.148 --> 00:41:24.311
<v Speaker 2>I've noticed that 78% of you are brand new, which means you haven't hit the subscribe button yet.

00:41:24.311 --> 00:41:31.596
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00:41:31.596 --> 00:41:33.697
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00:41:33.697 --> 00:41:34.922
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00:41:34.922 --> 00:41:36.387
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00:41:43.128 --> 00:41:45.755
<v Speaker 2>I want to finish out on one subject.

00:41:45.755 --> 00:41:54.664
<v Speaker 2>We recently appointed in our company a chief community officer and when I sat with her, she said what's my job?

00:41:54.664 --> 00:42:14.072
<v Speaker 2>I said your job is to reach out to every one of our franchise partners, find out what they're great at, find out what they need help with and connect them with someone on the other side of the planet who's great at the thing they need help with, and vice versa for everyone on the planet, and start doing that.

00:42:14.072 --> 00:42:15.974
<v Speaker 2>And she said and that's all I have to do?

00:42:15.974 --> 00:42:39.148
<v Speaker 2>I said yes, because what we've found is that if people, they get more value out of just being connected with someone than they do out of pretty much anything else in what we do, and we noticed that when people come to us being a part of the community is more important than pretty much anything.

00:42:39.148 --> 00:42:51.253
<v Speaker 2>How do we get business people today to just recognize the power, the value and even the, I guess, the long-term profitability in community?

00:42:52.240 --> 00:42:53.927
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's a lot of questions in a row, Brad.

00:42:53.927 --> 00:43:01.197
<v Speaker 1>You just want to make this hard for me, you know you're the guy I mean.

00:43:01.237 --> 00:43:02.019
<v Speaker 2>this is the thing.

00:43:03.023 --> 00:43:05.349
<v Speaker 1>But we don't have like a three-day seminar, Brad.

00:43:06.021 --> 00:43:08.748
<v Speaker 2>Oh, okay, in 30 seconds or less, charles.

00:43:08.748 --> 00:43:11.282
<v Speaker 2>So first things first, read your books.

00:43:11.282 --> 00:43:13.208
<v Speaker 2>Okay, there's the answer Read all your books.

00:43:13.280 --> 00:43:15.487
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I've spent several years writing books.

00:43:15.487 --> 00:43:17.887
<v Speaker 1>That Brad Shugler thinks is good enough that we still talk.

00:43:17.887 --> 00:43:18.389
<v Speaker 1>So there you go.

00:43:18.389 --> 00:43:21.594
<v Speaker 1>So how do we convince people we were doing it right now?

00:43:21.594 --> 00:43:31.865
<v Speaker 1>Right, you have a global business success and you're saying out loud on your own podcast look, my success is because I make the phone calls in my car.

00:43:33.027 --> 00:43:34.630
<v Speaker 1>I invite people to spend time with me.

00:43:34.630 --> 00:43:37.074
<v Speaker 1>Many of those are intimate experiences.

00:43:37.074 --> 00:43:40.360
<v Speaker 1>I don't take pictures of the event and put them on social media.

00:43:40.360 --> 00:43:42.789
<v Speaker 1>I don't tag them or try to get sponsorship.

00:43:42.789 --> 00:43:46.965
<v Speaker 1>I don't try to wear really fancy clothes so people can see it's glamorous.

00:43:46.965 --> 00:44:02.045
<v Speaker 1>I just roast a pig and invite people over and have the conversation they have, and I invite people into a room that does not have 11 chairs, and I picked a group of guys that's well under 20, right, and my guess is it's 10 or less.

00:44:02.045 --> 00:44:02.467
<v Speaker 1>Am I right?

00:44:02.467 --> 00:44:03.369
<v Speaker 1>That's right.

00:44:03.369 --> 00:44:19.735
<v Speaker 1>So there's a group of less than 11 guys in the Las Vegas area that I invest every single week in having a relationship with, and I recognize that all the people that I call when I'm really in a crisis are forged in those intimate experiences.

00:44:19.735 --> 00:44:26.601
<v Speaker 1>If that isn't enough testimony to business leaders that creating community with intimate experience is important, then we got nothing.

00:44:26.601 --> 00:44:27.505
<v Speaker 1>They're not going to listen to us.

00:44:28.927 --> 00:44:30.050
<v Speaker 1>And then, of course, how to do it.

00:44:30.050 --> 00:44:33.085
<v Speaker 1>As you said, I've written the books and you've read them and we're still talking.

00:44:33.085 --> 00:44:36.773
<v Speaker 1>And then the third thing you said was how do we convince about profitability?

00:44:36.773 --> 00:44:48.184
<v Speaker 1>Every time you sat in your wine cellar and every time you roasted a pig and every time you texted the handsome men's group am I right about this, brad?

00:44:48.184 --> 00:44:53.431
<v Speaker 1>Every single time you never calculated the ROI, not once.

00:44:53.431 --> 00:44:54.512
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

00:44:54.512 --> 00:44:59.684
<v Speaker 1>So another way to call that that orientation is generosity.

00:44:59.684 --> 00:45:18.746
<v Speaker 1>Brad Sugars attributes a huge percentage of his success in business and in family and in friendship because he committed to gathering people generously, full stop, and he didn't ROI it at the end of the quarter or the end of the year or the end of the chapter.

00:45:18.746 --> 00:45:28.592
<v Speaker 1>He just trusted if I actually invest in this, it's going to reward me in ways maybe I can never measure, but it's going to work.

00:45:28.592 --> 00:45:31.548
<v Speaker 1>And not only is that happening, but you're evangelizing that now.

00:45:32.641 --> 00:45:46.929
<v Speaker 2>Charles Vogel follow study hit the show notes, do all the things.

00:45:47.369 --> 00:45:50.411
<v Speaker 3>We'll be back next week with more of your big success and personal success.

00:45:50.411 --> 00:45:56.277
<v Speaker 3>As well as how to level up or listen to past episodes, visit wwwbradsugarscom.