Why Authentic Experience is the Key to Modern Branding with Lisa Holladay

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 Granger for the ones who get it done.
 You're listening to the Radcast,
 a top 25 worldwide business podcast.
 If it's radical, we cover it.
 Here's your host, Ryan Alford.
 Hey guys, what's up?
 Welcome to the latest edition of the Radcast.
 I'm Ryan Alford, your host.
 We save its radical, we cover it.
 Well, I like to say every day is a holiday.
 That's why we got Lisa Holiday here.
 The Chief Experience Officer of Tiger 21.
 What's up, Lisa?
 Hey, Ryan.
 You know how it's going to work that in.
 I love it.
 I told you I'd never heard that one before.
 Yeah, I know.
 Thanks for enlightening me.
 Lisa, I told you.
 Just a few, just a few million times.
 A few million times.
 I don't call a try.
 I hear it every weekend a thousand times
 because we have this guy on our dock.
 He's an old guy's name's Ed.
 He is every day as a whole.
 Hey, what's up?
 You know, every day is a holiday.
 That's his saying.
 I know a lot will say it, but anyway.
 It's a lot worse things to be said about, right?
 I was going to say it.
 Sounds like Ed has a pretty good perspective
 on how to live life, right?
 That is him, for sure.
 And he's serving it well, though.
 Yeah.
 He's making do on that.
 Well, if you're hanging out with him on the dock,
 I could imagine how he's doing that.
 So good for you and you, right?
 I know.
 Anyway, it's a treat to be with you today.
 So thanks again.
 No.
 It's my treat.
 I found you on the linked in inisms
 and found you there.
 And it's like, she's really smart.
 And then I didn't even know you right down the road
 we're in Greenville.
 And you're in Chapin, South Carolina.
 I'm like, that's my Chapin girl there.
 South Carolina.
 Just South Carolinians.
 I know.
 Exactly.
 So happy to be back in the South and on the lake.
 And now I know I'm like a mile from your mama.
 So I better get an invite to come visit her.
 No.
 Thanks a lot down there.
 I'll invite you over to the compound of a nice little place
 on the pond now.
 It's on the pond and not the lake.
 But we're close to the lake.
 So we'll see.
 But Lisa, I know you served at a lot of different roles.
 And then we're going to talk Tiger 21.
 But maybe let's set the table for our audience.
 Other than being everyday as a holiday.
 Let's tell everybody a little bit about Lisa.
 Yeah.
 Well, as I shared during the pandemic,
 like a lot of people I decided to go live where I like to vacate
 and so I headed back to beautiful South Carolina.
 So I've been back here for about three and a half years.
 Feel so blessed.
 Help me have my two sisters nearby and have a fulfilling career
 and hour and a half from my Clemson Tigers.
 So now I can go cheer them on.
 Although we're having a rough start to this football season.
 But I haven't given up hope.
 And yeah, have great family community.
 So life is good.
 See, I live up to that last name, Ryan.
 I know.
 You do live up to it.
 But, you know, I think you're being, you know,
 a little bashful or, you know, you've done some big things.
 I see you on the resume.
 Mercedes-Benz, Marriott, you know,
 I was in the big brand world at one time.
 And then move back to South Carolina.
 We still work with some big brands.
 But I think it's fascinating kind of looking at your professional journey.
 You know, just, yeah, it's kind of the who's who's of brands.
 Well, it wasn't, it didn't start off that way, Ryan.
 It was, I studied, I thought it was going to be an English teacher.
 And then decided pretty quickly, student teaching that wasn't the career path.
 So bounced around a good bit, went abroad and thought I'd try out
 being a Shakespearean actress.
 And clearly that didn't work out for me.
 So came back to the States and really approached finding my career path
 by trying out just about anything and everything that sounded interesting.
 And when I landed at Mercedes,
 that's when I figured out the career path for me.
 And how much I really love brands and understanding what motivates consumers to have brand love,
 how to build brand love, and really experiential marketing,
 bringing humans together to connect in person.
 And now you have thanks to the pandemic figuring out how to do that virtually too.
 But yeah, Mercedes was really probably the most pivotal career moment for me
 and stayed there for 10 years.
 And then a recruiter called me about the opportunity at Marriott.
 And I have a bit of wanderlust.
 I had a lot of trouble.
 And so joining a global brand and leading five luxury brands for that, you know,
 iconic hospitality company was was pretty amazing.
 And after eight years there, a recruiter called me about the job at Tiger 21 and
 jumping over and a small organization and with an entrepreneurial spirit just really,
 really appealed to me and obviously very, very different than being with large brands.
 I've been there three and a half years building out a new department.
 It was a new executive role in a brand new department and building it out, you know,
 during the pandemic was interesting and challenging but also an incredible opportunity.
 So yeah, I love experiences and brand building.
 It's one of my passions.
 And it's interesting because when I think now, like the modern definition of branding,
 it really, with the way social media and even the pandemic, like the interplay of all
 these things, like it really is the pinnacle when you can blend the two things.
 And that's really how you do branding now.
 It's so hard with mass media kind of being different.
 I mean, you know, when you could reach, when everybody's attention was just on TV,
 you know, you didn't have all these greens and other things.
 You know, you kind of bring to brand a life, you were paying attention, you have a focused audience.
 But now everyone's so distracted, like these worlds of experience and branding,
 I feel like have melded together in a lot of ways, right?
 Yeah, yeah, 100%.
 I think back in my early career and, you know, branding was, what's the TV spot?
 What's the tagline? What's the radio at? God, I'm going to be myself, you know.
 Oh, baby, yeah. I ran on newspaper ads.
 Lisa, I was in 01, like, who's sitting out to 8,000 newspapers, you know, like,
 conversions of PDFs.
 Oh, good old print campaigns.
 Yeah, so, but especially, you know, the space I've been in most of my career has been the luxury space.
 And that's always been a different type of target consumer to reach.
 And so I've always found, again, with this specific target audience,
 and a lot of target audience, you know, I go back to, I was mentioning how much I love my clumps and tigers.
 You know, there's nothing like the experiential part of being with a group of humans
 who are all cheering for the same team.
 And that experience is going to do much more than any, you know, direct mail piece or, or anything else.
 So that's why I believe so much in the experiential part of bringing people together in community.
 And again, if, you know, not to keep going back to the pandemic, but when you're relying on that as a marketing mechanism
 and all of a sudden that's taken away from you, that was a pretty interesting, you know,
 challenge to think about how you maintain and continue to build community and connectivity among humans.
 And your team, you know, we haven't even gotten to how to keep and engage team internally to make all those things happen.
 I know, I just thought of this like when you said it, when you brought up the clumps and analogy,
 I think it's a really good one. It's like branding, if it does its job, you do create fans.
 The fandom is a really interesting parallel with branding because, you know, obviously, you know, college sports and football
 being so big in the States, you know, you have these natural tie-ins and like natural built-in stuff.
 But for brands, including, okay, Mercedes, especially, you know, you have, you're trying to build fandom, right?
 Like at the end of the day, because I think, and they aren't.
 You know, I'm not sure about cars, but how do you bring fandom around brands and other things?
 It's kind of an even fascinating, does I think about it?
 Yeah, and I think that's what, you know, our roles are, is how are you?
 I used to use this example at Mercedes and luckily we had great products.
 So, you know, if somebody has a bad product experience because so much of the car and automotive brands
 are about the product itself, you know, and I think our jobs as marketers and brand builders is how do you build loves
 that even if somebody has a bad product experience, they have such an affinity for your brand that they're going to stay loyal to you.
 And at the end of the day, that's what you're trying to drive is not loyalty.
 Absolutely. Yeah. Well, I've been on my soapbox recently with some of my posts, especially on the business room, about that very thing of, you know, performance marketing
 and building mouse traps, you know, all a mouse trip does is kill the mouse.
 It saves the cheese and kills the mouse if you aren't building for the long time of searching because, you know, if someone buys one time, it's great, but you do that lifetime value.
 You need customer loyalty. It works both ways.
 I have started a book called, you know, have lifetime value. I have lifetime loss and it's the, the law start of customer relationship management.
 So, that's on my list.
 That's a, that's a good one. I, you know, part of the big project I worked on at Mercedes that I took with me and it was a big part of what we built out when I first joined Tiger was, you know,
 the journey your consumer takes with your brand and, you know, at Mercedes, it was our clients at Ritz Carlton or St. Regis, it was our guest journey.
 And now at Tiger 21, it's our member journey. So, you know, what are really thinking strategically, not just hoping they'll happen about what are all those touch points along that journey.
 Just as you were saying, you know, hopefully a member that is coming in and just joining us in this first year.
 10 years from now, we're going to be thinking, okay, you know, what's their journey now that they're a 10 year member, a 15 year member, a 20 year member, but really plotting those points and how do you drive that engagement along along their path with you.
 You got to be intentional because as I like to say, hope is not a strategy.
 Yes, hey, I'm a quote guy, you know, like it comes. I think I spend so much time on Instagram.
 So, let's, I want to get to Tiger 21, but before we get there, you're the chief experience officer.
 We've talked about this, right? I mean, we've kind of been going dancing all around it, but, you know, for I think for people listening, that's a fairly new title in the last, I don't know, five to 10 years.
 And for many people, they may not even heard it that often.
 Define what that means.
 Sure, sure. Well, for me, a Tiger 21, it means curating everything our members will experience.
 And for us, it's across three different pillars. So our pillars for our members, our value proposition to our members is we're going to bring you opportunities to learn.
 Because we're a peer-to-peer learning organization. So how do you learn from each other? How are we curating those learning opportunities for you?
 It's access. So how are we providing what we call this only at Tiger 21 moment? So the surprise and delight opportunities.
 We were just in Nashville with members last week and we took them to a recording studio where they were able to experience what it would be like if you were up and coming country musician recording your songs, which was really, really special.
 And then we followed that up where each member that participated received a copy of the recording. So unfortunately, it wasn't the original recording.
 So the up and coming artists did an original song of hers and then she covered a Chris Stapleton song parachute.
 So everyone got her cover of that song. So you know, you're not only having the the access to that special opportunity, but then we're doing something to help trigger that memory again.
 And hopefully that leads to loyalty. And then the third pillar is connect and I don't want to say that's the easiest one, but I think it's in many ways the most important one because that's what's getting to the community opportunities.
 You know, how are we providing opportunities? And I'm talking a lot about the in person because that's the sexier part, but you know, it's the app. So how are we providing opportunities that it's super easy for you to connect with a member that's, you know, maybe right now in Dubai and you're in California.
 And you have a reason to try to connect. So yeah, it's across those three pillars that I focus on. And really it's about driving retention. So once a member joins the organization, what are we doing to make sure they find value and the experience and they'll stay with us.
 Yes, I'm like sitting here like nodding mentally like all the things you're doing going like this is how you this is how you market in this day and age and how you keep clients. And I'm also going to him. I supposed to be on a Nashville to hang out. I've got some country music artist friends.
 And I'm actually going to see them in a few weeks. So I'm like, I want to go record a song, you know, not me, but them and like a special song just for me. I want that experience. That's cool. Yeah.
 You know, and those are hard to create, you know, those money can't buy experience, especially when my target audience are, you know, ultra high net worth individuals, but I love the challenge of that, the challenge of that, you know, striving for excellence. And no matter who you are or how much money you have, you know, one thing none of us can buy more of this time.
 And so how did you really create value with with people who are giving their time to you and not just giving, but paying you.
 Yeah.
 Yeah.
 Yeah. I think it's, it's a super important obligation to deliver, but it's also such a privilege.
 All right. Let's talk tigers and much I'd love to talk our Clemson Tigers. Let's talk to our tired 21. I know you, you just finding talked about a little bit in your position.
 But let's get a real clear definition for our audience about what tiger 21 is what you, you know, you guys do and, you know, just the overall organization.
 Yeah. Yeah. So we're we're a peer-to-peer learning organization or community for ultra high net worth individuals. Most of our members are entrepreneurs or executives leaders.
 Most of them have built a business and had a liquidity moment and they are looking for other members to help them navigate the challenges and opportunities that come with that.
 So it's a really the core part of the experience is members are placed in groups of 12 to 15 individuals. So a group and a professional facilitator what we call chairs facilitates a monthly group meeting.
 So that's the core part of the experience. What I work on creating are all the opportunities in addition to that core group meeting.
 So whether it's events, I mentioned, whether it's trips, whether it's learning opportunities, whether it's their digital experience, but online and in the app.
 And then the recognition opportunities. So, you know, what are we doing when a member first joins, what are we doing when it's their five year anniversary, their 10 year anniversary.
 Really, how are we making sure they love Tiger 21 and their experience with us?
 So it's super cool. Yeah, it sounds like it. So I mean, a bunch of rich people getting together.
 I'm kidding. In all seriousness, like, define for me. Okay, the group, the types of things and types of values, value that are that the group, you know, the high tide raises all ships, which is one of my, we talk about all quotes, but like that's like one of my firm beliefs.
 And so if you want to learn, grow, get better, be better to you surround yourself with. And so all the Tiger 21, we like this already. I get it.
 So, but like, talk to me about, you know, for the audience listening, okay, that might not be like connecting the dots of what the group adds to one another, how that tide raises everyone.
 Yeah, well, what you said is absolutely true is that, you know, helping support others. And, you know, for me personally, I'll tell you my why for joining Tiger 21 when I interviewed was if I can come in and lend my talent and my resources to help individuals who have the financial resources to really make the world and their communities a better place, then that seems like a pretty great thing to contribute to.
 And so, you know, people often think, oh, are they coming in to learn how to make more money or invest more wisely. And yeah, that's 100% part of it.
 But it's also about family, it's also about philanthropy, it's also figuring out your what's next in this world and how can you continue to contribute.
 And what happens in those group meetings is really connection and being able to talk about anything and everything and having a level of trust and support from other individuals that's really beyond comparison.
 You know, I, I think also you have to really think about the type of individual that would have achieved the level of success they've achieved, but still believe that they have so much to learn and not only do they want to learn, they're willing to pay $33,000 a year to be part of a community that is supporting that.
 So it's a, it's a different type of person. I think that's going to make the decision to join Tiger 21.
 Well, I think I know the answer. I don't know why my head went here, but like, it's different because YPO is like young professionals.
 And this is kind of more established, but there is some connective tissue in the type of what we're talking about here, isn't there?
 100% and that's the organization most people usually would compare us to. We don't consider YPO competitor.
 We do have some members who are, you know, belong to YPO and belong to Tiger 21, but it is a different value proposition.
 YPO is much, much larger than we are. We sometimes say, you know, we're more the graduate school after YPO.
 And, you know, being in these really small intense groups, I think just lends itself.
 And it doesn't mean obviously YPO forms great connections for those members. And, you know, there's room for, for both.
 You know, the peer-to-peer learning space has really grown a lot.
 And I think it grew a lot, especially during the pandemic, because people were wanting and looking for even more connections when they felt so disconnected.
 You know, is other than it's sharing stock tips.
 So, I hope if I joined, I really won't, I do need a few of those.
 But is, are they getting advice maybe on like, are they completely out of their business?
 Like you said, maybe a liquid moment, like, liquidy moment.
 They've, but are they coming in? Maybe still active in a business and looking for like, you know, I use that term pre-episode.
 Like, virtual board of direct or real board of directors, but not literally, you know.
 But you've got obviously confidentiality, so you don't have to worry about that.
 You've got all those things, which I really liked reading about Tiger 21, that you could just feel safe around like individuals.
 But are some of these people like active in their, in maybe another venture or business and getting insight and recommendations in that?
 100, 100%. So our member age range, just give you an idea, because I think that's the other thing really special is just the diversity of our membership.
 So, you know, our youngest members in their early 20s, our oldest members is in his late 80s.
 So it's a, it's a range of perspectives, and you can imagine when you think of that age range, not everyone is sold their business and thinking, okay, not what snack.
 You know, they're active executives. There are individuals who sold their business and are thinking about, you know, which opportunity is next?
 And, you know, what do I want to do next with my life?
 But yes, there's plenty of our members who are still super active in their business and running their businesses and, you know, creating opportunities in their community and opportunities for their family.
 Yeah. What's, where did the name come from, Tiger 21?
 Yeah, so luckily our founder, Michael Sonnenfeld, is still, is still involved. He's the chairman of our board. He's very involved in the organization coming from legacy brands. I feel very, we're just really blessed that we still have his influence.
 He had a liquidity moment next year will be our 25th anniversary, so 25 years ago, and he wanted to create a group where he could have discussions about things that were happening in his life.
 And so he started it. So Tiger is an acronym. We don't use the, we use obviously the acronym, but the meaning behind Tiger is the investment group for enhanced results in the 21st century.
 And what started really is probably mostly an investment group has definitely evolved into something much more than that. But we do have plenty of opportunities for our members to learn about investment opportunities.
 There is a platform for that. We just launched called T21 Invest. It's a password protected. It's for our members only, but there's definitely that component, but there's also the components around, you know, your life, your health, travel, your family, family dynamics is huge, really, really important piece of it.
 That's great. You said there was an app. So you do, you have, yeah, it's, it's members only. So once you're a member Ryan, you'd have access to the cool app and be able to engage. We're at right over 1300 members and 45 cities and with 100 groups and growing internationally, which is super exciting to really have more of a global footprint in that global community for our members to network and learn from.
 I love that. I was going to ask that you have a US based or you know how global we're getting with the platform.
 Yeah, yeah. So growing globally, there's tons of opportunity there. Big focus on Singapore, the UK, Dubai. We're in London and Switzerland now, but there's obviously a lot of opportunity to grow globally.
 Yeah. And then the majority of our members are in the US and then we have members in Mexico, Canada.
 Is there a home base for Tiger 21 or is it like, I mean, is it, yeah, I mean, with 45 cities, I mean, is it just wherever you want to throw a party and get together?
 Not exactly. I wish it was that easy to grow a group. Key is to have, you know, a concentration of members in a market. So we're in markets where you would, we would, you would assume we are.
 And then there's a really interesting markets that popped up again during the pandemic with with so much movement among individuals who could pick up and move.
 Key is we really need a strong chair so that individual, I mentioned that facilitates the group meetings. We really need a strong chair in a market and then that chair works closely with us to grow that group.
 Headquarter wise corporate, we do have a base still in New York. We have a home office there and we have a base in Santa Barbara, but we went completely remote during the pandemic and we're planning to stay that way.
 The team is my team is spread out all over the US.
 Oh, that's great. I mean, and it sort of makes sense. I mean, for what this is, I mean, to have, I don't know that it necessarily matters, you know, where your team is, and especially just having, if you're in 45 states, you know, you represent a little bit everywhere, right?
 Well, yeah, and up 45 cities.
 Or city. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I was bringing up because it includes, you know, Zurich, London, Geneva, and as I'm, you know, Vancouver, Montreal, Toronto.
 And then every US market that you would think of, we have a presence in, yeah, which is great.
 Because again, it brings that diversity of thought to our members and to their group meetings and to us more broadly as an organization.
 What's it been like, you know, Mercedes Benz, Marriott, you know, gigantic corporate brands, you know, and, and the entire 21.
 It's fascinating because I'll draw this parallel. I worked on the largest brands in the world of Manhattan, and, and some of the largest campaigns on TV and then started my own agency.
 We work with, you know, multi-million dollar, I mean, 100 million, but we're not working with Verizon or Google or Apple.
 And it's a fascinating parallel likely for you, like, and not just from a budget perspective, but just team and dynamics. I mean, right? What's that been like?
 It's been a while. It's been a wild ride.
 It was one of the reasons as I shared that I accepted the position. I'd loved the idea to come in and help support.
 First, I believed in the purpose and the why of the organization. So that was first and foremost for me.
 I love the idea of challenging myself. You know, it's interesting because I've kind of come full circle.
 I thought I was originally going to be an English teacher, and now I'm part of a learning organization. So it's different, but, you know, there's been a common thread through my journey, my personal journey that I love to learn.
 And so coming in and challenging myself to come in and, you know, not inherit somebody else's job that had already been doing it and their files and their team, but come in and build something from scratch really, really appealed to me.
 But it's hard. It's hard, you know.
 Yeah, if you say these bins, there's not a check you really couldn't write, you know, like, and not that money makes it right.
 I mean, it doesn't solve everything, but it helps.
 It helps. I mean, while I was there, I negotiated the Fashion Week title sponsorship, the US Open, you know, the masters, the naming rights for at the time, the Super Dome.
 I mean, and those were, as you know, those are big sponsorship checks. I mean, we were doing product placement and huge movies and, you know, Iron Man product placement level.
 Yeah. And then, you know, Marriott is, wasn't the same kind of sponsorship budget, but, you know, still, so now I would say my budgets are quite quite smaller.
 You know, what, what is a big number to me now and my forecasting is quite different than when I, when I was at those big brands, but now I love it.
 It's, I haven't regretted it for a moment and there's still so much opportunity, but my favorite part, I mean, I get to be around these human beings who have come up with these incredible ideas and are, I mean, it's just a fascinating group of people and the members.
 The members are amazing and my team. I mean, to, I mean, talk about a privilege to come in and build out a team and, you know, hire the individuals and create that culture. That's the other part we really leaned into is, you know, what kind of culture do we want to create and so much of that is starting with who you hire.
 And so I'm just, I've just an awesome team. I'm so lucky to work with them every day. Yeah, I was going to say like, and I was going to ask, like, across the span of your entire career, but maybe I mean with tired 21 is there something like what's been like the biggest learning curve or like not even curve, but just like learning lesson or that you've kind of had or epiphany, like, work, you know, going from large.
 To small or, you know, and having different opportunities, you've got challenges, we've got different opportunities because you can kind of impact more, right? That was always my thing a little bit when you worked with large brands, it's great.
 And like, we do these things and it's like hundreds of millions hours and it's like, did we really move the needle? Like, I think we did, but and I feel proud. But and then what you're doing now, the smallest things can have a big impact.
 Yeah, so agree. I mean, we were just comparing our events. I'll go back to the events because you can probably tell my real love and passion.
 You know, we were just looking at what was being done before we built out this team and now what's happening. And it's pretty both in person and virtual. By the way, you know, I know people talk about zoom, zoom fatigue, we haven't found that at all.
 So the virtual events didn't go away because the pandemic did or, you know, the pandemic, COVID became just, you know, like getting the flu shot now.
 It's and for us, it's doing all the virtual stuff and adding all the in person back in, but probably my biggest aha moment and learning moment.
 And you'll know this like big companies talk about fail fast and take risk and I didn't really find that was so much lived.
 And I think because again, we're an organization that comes from, you know, our base is an entrepreneurial spirit. We've got the freedom.
 I can pitch on this anything. And if I get the buy end, just the freedom and the ability to try things really quickly to make decisions quickly, you know, it's not going through all these layers of process. I love that part of it.
 So that's probably been the biggest like being able to embrace that and know that we actually mean it and can do it. And we're not just saying it. Yeah.
 That's fun. You know, I mean, being an idea guy, I would love that. Like this.
 If anything, if anything, we have to say, okay, everyone, that's a lot of ideas. That's quite warrantized and focused.
 Like narrow it down.
 Talking to Lisa holiday, the CXO chief experience officer Tiger 21 Lisa, what did I do when you're not working?
 Well, depends on whether it's college football season. So, but you know, part of why I moved back to South Carolina, loving on the water.
 So stand up paddle boarding. I love to cook. That's probably my creative outlet outside of work. I'm a big nerd when it comes to reading.
 I'm like, you probably even know the little library I go to. I got really into libraries again. So now I have a library card. It's so cool.
 It's really cool.
 It's a library. I know exactly where that library is. It's a cool library. It is. It's a great library.
 So yeah, just and all my I need to get more involved in. I'm so involved with my family and my friends, but I want to get more involved in the broader community.
 Now that we can get out and about and now that I'm back here and putting down roots. So yeah. Yeah.
 Oh, and travel. God, I can't forget travel. Love travel. What's your favorite dish? Did you like cook or a favorite dish? I mean, are we talking like all over the board or specific cuisines?
 I do love Mexican. That's part of my guilty pleasure. Notches and a margarita.
 So I like just about everything. You know, I'm a Southern girl. Give me some fried chicken and collard greens and I'm good to go. Ryan. Yeah.
 There's some good fried chicken around there too. Like all of those gas stations that you think that wouldn't be good has some pretty good fried chicken.
 It's called Palmetto. It's called Palmetto Cafe and it's about a mile from here. If you even had that gas station going chicken, you're missing out.
 I love it. I love it. Well, Lisa, it's been great talking with you. I know we can talk more and more and more. I know we can have some brilliant discussions.
 But where could everybody learn more about Tiger 21 and anything else you've got going on some of your social profiles?
 Yeah. Yeah. Well, definitely learn about Tiger 21. So I know you've got a great audience of entrepreneurs and just great following. So yeah, Tiger 21.com is the public facing website.
 Our members have their own special website and app, but you can learn more about it. Looks great. We just did a revamp. And then yeah, for me, I'm on LinkedIn is probably the best one business wise. So Lisa holiday.
 Yeah. Would love to connect with your audience. It's been such a pleasure, Ryan.
 That's great. And that's holiday with an A H-O-L-L-A.
 Yes. H-O-L-L-L.
 There you go. Give Lisa a follow or a mention on LinkedIn and tell her that you heard her on the Radcast and you enjoyed it.
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 We'll see you next time.
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