Jay Jay - Influential Speaker and Founder of Ace of Spades

 People will stand up and clap.
 I'm like, I just want to be a part of that experience, you know?
 Most boys from 5 to 8 love magic.
 It's just this very enticing, exciting art form that's fun.
 You get all these wins and you get these levels of success.
 And you're like, oh man, I got five tickets for this event.
 You're like, is this it?
 I was like a swiss army knife, right?
 But it was always people first.
 I love people.
 It doesn't matter if you're shy, it doesn't matter if you're an introvert,
 it doesn't matter if you're not attractive,
 like, you don't need even a sexy industry to get people to know you.
 We're listening to the Radcast.
 If it's radical, we cover it.
 Here's your host, Ryan Alfred.
 Hey guys, what's up?
 Welcome to the latest edition of the Radcast.
 Ryan offered your host.
 We're talking magic today, folks.
 It's called Personal Branding.
 It's called PR.
 I'm talking with the founder of Ace of Spades,
 international speaker, personal branding expert.
 I'm coming to a good friend, too.
 JJ, what's up, brother?
 What's up, man?
 I like, this is the look we got going on.
 We got, like, you could be a musician.
 You could be like a, like, some kind of fixing someone's box
 with those green cabinets in front of you.
 You've got the 7-11 cup on the side on the below there.
 It's the whole show.
 But then you've got the success quotes.
 The gear, I mean, our fish,
 a merchandise sponsor, branded bills.
 You know, we've got all kinds of stuff.
 It's good time.
 And you've got people in the office behind you working.
 It's not like one of those news casts.
 You know, when TV journalists are doing stuff
 and they see people working behind,
 I'm like, they don't even work there.
 You're just trying to make people look like you guys are busy.
 Exactly.
 They better be busy back there.
 I'm going to go kick some eyes out.
 Yeah.
 Exactly.
 Got to whip something around here.
 How's it going, Jay?
 What's going on, man?
 You know, another, another damn paradise, dude.
 Miami.
 Miami is pumping right now.
 Dude, I mean, you got everybody's moving to Miami.
 I mean, like, some of my friends,
 I didn't even know it's like they're moving to Miami.
 Dude, everyone's moving, you know,
 as in Rican Glacier says it,
 let's move to Miami.
 You know, let's, you know,
 and just so we're clear, like,
 please don't say Miami Florida.
 It's offensive to us.
 You see that video?
 So I'm like, do you live in Miami Florida?
 No, no, no.
 She's like, Miami Florida, USA.
 She goes, no, Miami, USA.
 There's Miami.
 It's its whole own community.
 The nation of Miami.
 Dude, Miami is now like,
 it's like a global destination.
 It's not like L.A., Minneapolis, Texas.
 It's India, Australia,
 Dubai, Africa.
 Like the amount of people flowing through,
 like the governor just must be like,
 please keep coming.
 Please, you know, tourism is up in Miami as well.
 Dude, he's so loved here.
 I want to, I want to, I want to see this.
 I have some, I've been told this multiple times.
 He'll walk into a restaurant to Santos.
 People will stand up and clap.
 I'm like, I just want to be a kind of experience.
 Which governor has ever got that?
 Maybe, I don't know, I don't know the state.
 You guys, is he one of your clients, personal branding?
 I'm going to, I'm going to, that's a slow, that's a slow play, you know,
 but he'd be a fun client, you know.
 So.
 So what's cooking, man?
 I know you've, you got a great story.
 I know I want to tell everybody about it.
 I mean, look, you're the first magician past,
 you know, life I know.
 But past magician, now, you know, coaching people on building their brands and PR and,
 you know, helping them leverage all that.
 But give, let's, let's talk to JJ story.
 Well, dude, it's an Australian accent.
 Let's clear that out for the listeners.
 Is it London?
 Is it South Africa?
 Is it Kiwi?
 Dude, it's Australian.
 You know, my mom, my mom is English in French.
 Dad's Sri Lankan, you know, I'm like this unique,
 Indian, Ricky Martin, look going on.
 People like, I don't know if he's going to strip.
 I don't know if he's going to sing, you know.
 I'm done, bro.
 You can do both, right?
 Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm done both.
 So it's, you know, they both work, you know.
 But, but, you know, no, man, you know, I wanted to, you know,
 16 years ago, I wanted to do two things in Australia.
 I wanted to, you know, stand on stage and tell everywhere what I do.
 And if my first stage was a soccer field,
 I wanted to play pro soccer, right wing.
 And then when I realized that
 life was very up in the air, like you can get injured.
 And the next kid's going to come through.
 Entertainment was sort of the vibe for me.
 And I was the kid to learn magic tricks longer than you, you know.
 Most boys from five to eight love magic.
 It's just this very enticing, exciting art form.
 That's fun, you know, people listening right now may have a son
 or a daughter that just loves magic tricks.
 It's just a cool thing.
 I have a son that loves magic.
 Yeah. There you go.
 Good. Yeah.
 And I was just like someone said, why magic?
 I said, dude, I don't know.
 Like, why does someone become a pit history chef?
 I don't know.
 It's just what we're drawn towards.
 And I did that for, you know, 18 years, you know,
 15 to 18 years.
 And I hit every level of success.
 You could hit as a magician, you know,
 TV show, good off at a Vegas contract.
 You know, got a deal to do some stuff with David Copperfield.
 Maybe some stuff with Chris Angel.
 So like, I hit all these successes,
 but along that journey, it was just, you know,
 when you do something so long and you think, is this it?
 Like, is this, it's got to be more than this.
 And I know like a lot of probably of your guests have said that,
 but I really felt it.
 Because I would go through different countries,
 like I, 35 countries later, you know,
 I take my act and what I do around the world.
 And you get all these wins and you get these levels of success
 that you're like, oh, man, I got five figures for this event.
 And I'm in, you know, the penthouse in the Marriott,
 the sort of the out, the Grand Hyatt in India,
 like, you know, you're signing the room service,
 like you're the prince, like whatever, you know, you know,
 you can't.
 25-year-old green tea, cover it, you know?
 But it was, but you had highs and lows like that.
 And you're like, is this it?
 But then eventually, like the next day,
 you know, no one, you go back to your,
 you know, your apartment, I was living in,
 in Asia at the time, you're like, is this it?
 You know, like, is this what people go through?
 I'm like, there's got to be more.
 And then, you know, to cut a long story short,
 like you just, I was always adding,
 I was like a swiss army knife.
 Magic was my first part.
 Then I would add in the hosting.
 I would add in speaking.
 I ran a digital agency in Asia while the gigs were slow.
 I ran a nightclub, right?
 It was, but it was always people first.
 I love people.
 And, you know, being around people my whole life,
 you know, for so many countries and in three different continents,
 you just like become like this sponge of knowledge.
 And you're very good at working it.
 You know how to like go into any situation,
 work the room, close the deal, follow up.
 Like you just, I just became like really good at like figuring out
 how to play different roles.
 And that's how the personal branding happened.
 Because at the end of the day, what was I doing for 33 now for 18 years?
 I was selling me, you know, magic to speaking,
 to TV hosting, digital agency, running a nightclub.
 You know, it's like, it doesn't matter about the product.
 It matters about the person.
 So, you know, when when 2020 happened, you know,
 pandemic, and I couldn't speak anymore.
 And I wasn't really happy.
 I was speaking of corporations.
 And, you know, you're giving them all these
 moves and ideas about personal experiences and customer satisfaction.
 They're like smiling.
 City banks looking at you smiling.
 But you know on Monday, they've gone back straight back to the same way they were before.
 And I was like, this isn't it.
 Like, is this it?
 Like, do I really want to get paid to go speak to corporations
 when they don't, they can't do anything or they're red tape?
 So the pandemic was the best thing that happened to me, man.
 And then I, you know, transition into the feeling of like,
 what can I do to, you know, help people get themselves known?
 What's, uh, I want to get down the obviously personal brand path,
 but I want to the magic.
 I got to, you know, there's going to be curiosity.
 I think you're right with people, you know,
 relate to that or have perspective of that.
 But I think at the end of the day,
 it's probably makes you great marketing,
 not because marketing's magic per se, but it's the art,
 it's an art, you know, an art form in a way.
 And it's, you know, certainly persuasion, right?
 Isn't it just the art of great marketing is the art of persuasion?
 And isn't magic like the ultimate format of that?
 Yeah, yeah.
 I think the, because I did it for so long,
 and my speciality was close up magic, not stage.
 So it was like working different rooms of people,
 like 500 boring accountants, they're like,
 Hey, man, here's a bunch of money going and make,
 go on and make sure we appreciate them for the hard work they do, you know,
 right?
 So the idea, however, every event, you know,
 so they would use me as a pawn, you know,
 you're the filler, you're the guy to make it fun.
 And then it is, it's, it's making,
 it's moving people from a state,
 making them think something's there,
 controlling a room,
 telling people to do things they don't want to do.
 You know, it's like I was like a professional con man, you know,
 in a way.
 That's why I've always loved versions 11 and focus with Will Smith,
 and, you know, when, and to give you,
 I haven't told many people this.
 I don't think I've shared this a lot,
 but my speciality was pickpocketing.
 So close up magic.
 I could take you as watchers off.
 Yeah, I, man, I, that's how I got off of the TV show.
 So they wanted to do this idea of,
 I've called the Down Under Con man.
 It's gonna be me.
 Yeah, yeah.
 And that's, I'm glad you didn't go that with your personal brand.
 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
 Down Under Con man, I know, people like everything's a scam
 on the internet these days.
 But that's how we got media opportunity for the Vegas show,
 for the, you know, doing stuff at Copperfield for Disney,
 and then Chris Angel was, you know,
 they were, they were talks as well.
 But the, the feeling of like being a little go up to someone
 and like, you know, steal their watch,
 or like, you know,
 pickpocketing someone's bag,
 and then you're getting them on camera.
 There's a real show called,
 there was a show called The Real Hustle,
 and it was like hitting cameras.
 I was like, real pickpock,
 or like, actors,
 or magicians being pickpockets,
 but showing people how to steal,
 and how to go to a hotel and ask for a hotel upgrade.
 And I love all that stuff.
 Like, it's fun.
 Yeah.
 So what was your best trick?
 What was your best trick?
 What was your best trick?
 Oh, dude, stealing a Rolex or some guy's left wrist.
 All right.
 Yeah, that was it.
 Like, you tell me how he will not be like,
 this guy's good.
 And it's even better when his ego's there.
 And, you know, someone says, you know,
 Ryan, he's gonna get your watch.
 He's like, this kid will never get my watch.
 Four minutes later, I got his watch.
 Dude, you talk about like some guy from Texas,
 wanted to say that in Texas.
 Guy, the big hat, the guy, you know,
 he was, he was the, he was the power player.
 And I said, I don't get it.
 And I got it.
 Dude, I've never seen a guy being pushed on his pedestal
 in life.
 Like, he was like, he was angry and shocked.
 Then like, confused and intrigued.
 Oh, yeah, all the emotions.
 How was this 25 year old at the time, like, you know,
 young buck from, I don't know what country has fooled me, you know,
 but it was fun, you know, it was fun.
 No car tricks.
 Yeah, yeah.
 Dude, car tricks, coin tricks.
 It was, you know, the ability to work a room was the power.
 That's what, you know, it's like now that I'm out of it.
 And I'm present to what I was paid to do and make sense now.
 I wasn't paid for car tricks.
 I was paid to get everybody that you talk about their event.
 Hey, we had the best time.
 Thank you, Ryan, for putting on the event.
 I'm going to give you business now because I had a great experience
 because I had fun, you know.
 But it was, yeah, it was a good dude.
 It was a great, it was a great, you know,
 I'm so happy that I got to play that world for a long time
 because it took me to many different countries, many different cultures.
 I met celebrities and work with big players.
 Like it was a, it's an only art form that doesn't matter whether you're five
 or you're 55, you're from China or Colombia.
 It makes sense.
 You take a coin and you make a disappear.
 You don't need language to know what that means.
 Yeah.
 You're like surprise factor can connect, you know.
 Yeah.
 Surprise and delight.
 Yeah.
 Two more words.
 That's in marketing.
 I said last night.
 Okay, what can you go ahead?
 Talking with JJ owner of Ace of Spades personal branding expert.
 So Jay, uh, yeah, let's talk about,
 it's about, you know, personal branding.
 You know, it's so polarizing.
 You know, it's, it shouldn't be.
 To guys like you and I, it's not because we know the power of it.
 But why, what's the, the history here?
 Why, why is it so polarizing seemingly with people?
 Like, why is it like, either you, you get it and you're all in?
 Or you just, it's this taste for it.
 What is that?
 Yeah, let's start there.
 And then let's just talk about what real personal branding is.
 Well, you know, it's, it's funny because like you so right.
 Cause like, I, you know, I speak out.
 I'm speaking this week at it.
 I've seen a lot of entrepreneurship and events.
 And I was at Clevver Summit, you know, 2022 or whatever, two weeks ago.
 And you know, you got Ryan, you know, you got Ryan,
 a pinnator on stage.
 You've got, you know, Cody, like out of, let's say the 15 speakers,
 at least 10 of them mentioned personal branding.
 And then you've got the guys that are like all in, like, what would you do?
 Personal brand, everything is personal brand, personal brand, personal brand.
 You know, it's, it's, but then they, you know, you've got people in the room.
 You're right. Like who get it?
 And some people just don't, they just think it's the most like,
 ugh, why would I sell?
 Why would I put myself out there?
 Like, yeah, I want to start a tech company.
 I don't need to do that.
 Yeah.
 You know, I, what, it's hard to give an answer to this.
 Because I'm sure it's like the same thing like with being in sales.
 You know, when you say that, there are people that love it.
 They get it.
 That, you know, always learning about it.
 And there's a distaste with sales as well.
 I don't want to be that guy.
 Yeah.
 I think I think there's, there's a lot of
 preconceived notions about it, you know?
 And then that's our job, right?
 And especially my job to break the limiting beliefs on it.
 Yeah.
 Because as I said, you before we started,
 people have this ideal that, you know, one of the objections that comes up
 and I bring them up before I speak to people,
 hey, doesn't matter if you're shy.
 Doesn't matter if you're an introvert.
 Doesn't matter if you're not attractive.
 Like, you don't need even a sexy industry
 to get people to know you.
 And I think a lot of people around feel like, you know, they,
 oh, I don't look like Ryan.
 I'm not cool.
 I'm not work.
 I'm not ripped.
 I don't have like a team.
 You know, I don't have like a podcast.
 I can no one's going to believe me.
 Listen to me.
 Right.
 So I think there's a lot of,
 just they talk to themselves out of it for them to understand it.
 Yeah.
 I think you're right.
 But I think what people have to understand is
 being known has dividends, you know, and especially to the right audience.
 And it's not just about being famous.
 It's about having influence, right?
 And that's the biggest, that's the biggest difference.
 I see is, you know, having influence,
 which brings with it benefits versus,
 and I'm not saying fame doesn't bring benefits,
 but sometimes people I think miss,
 guide it.
 They think it's fame for fame's sake, you know, for ego.
 When the reality, you know,
 having influence and having an ability to move the market
 or or create leverage brings a lot of benefits.
 Yeah.
 Like, once again, it's just, it's just my sense of education.
 You know, everyone has influence.
 You have it over your animals.
 You have it over your children.
 You know, it's just, have you ever heard this, right?
 The problem that we face and probably a lot of listeners face
 is that we're actually and go with me on this one.
 We're too dialed in.
 We're too smart.
 And let me, let me explain what this means.
 We know too much.
 And when you when you know too much in the space of like
 the things like influence and and and, you know, personal brand,
 you know, how to close in the DMs,
 all these like words and things and phrases
 that very few people know about,
 it's actually sometimes not a good thing
 because we get to emotionally involved in it.
 Sometimes it's just like you said to someone,
 hey, go on this television show, talk about what you do
 and we're going to get a lot of people to see it.
 You've got to sometimes dumb it down for people
 because you start throwing influence and you start throwing like
 all these big things.
 People don't know, they don't understand.
 They get confused, right?
 You know, it's like, yeah, famous is great.
 But like, man, I'm just going to get a lot of people
 to look at your website and I'm going to a lot of a lot of people
 from the show to look at you and that's that's the way
 sometimes you go to people go to understand it.
 We have to drill it down to like, what's the end benefit?
 Okay, you've got to put, you're writing a book,
 no one knows who you are and you want to
 sell a lot of copies.
 So we're going to get you on TV and we're going to post
 the social media so that we get more people
 that view it so that they buy your book.
 Yeah.
 Right?
 Yeah, yeah.
 But let me let me let me throw this one in.
 And I think this is why I'm just going to sound cocky,
 but I'm going to own it because I guess the truth.
 This is why the agency's grown to 100 clients
 in 12 countries in under two years.
 The reason why is because I found out the why behind someone's vision.
 Do you want to write a book?
 Congratulations, I love that.
 Why do you want to do that?
 Well, I want to share my story.
 Okay, cool.
 And what do you want to do when we share this story?
 That's a very different path, man.
 Do you want to make money?
 Do you want to be validated by your mom?
 Who you haven't been validated for the last 10 years?
 Like I'm going deep, but this is how you go.
 Do you want to, do you just want to be appreciated
 within your local circle in like Minneapolis at the book club?
 I'm fun like that, but I bring it up because these are the things I keep hearing.
 You know, and when you find out what someone's real intention is
 behind the action, then you can create a plan to hit it.
 So you don't need to give them the, you know,
 quarter of a million dollar proposal or maybe you do.
 Yeah.
 Maybe they need a 25 grand or maybe they need to spend 2000.
 So it's like coming back to like figuring out what what's the reason they're doing it?
 Same thing in the podcast world, man.
 You know, I have a lot of clients.
 I want to start a podcast.
 Okay, why?
 Well, I just want to like, you know, I want to get out there a little bit.
 Okay, why?
 Because I want to meet some people.
 Why?
 Because you want cash flow, right?
 You want to sell your product.
 We don't have to do it that way.
 That's cool.
 Like if you enjoy it, but like nothing worse than going on a podcast and you know
 the guy's doing it for an of wrong intention.
 Yeah.
 You can feel it.
 You're like, this guy's just trying to like get leads, you know?
 Yep.
 Exactly.
 Yeah, you say that dude.
 I'll see you on the show.
 Yeah.
 But the question is it's like five minutes of like general like tell me your story.
 Cool.
 So, you know, tell me about the business and how you bring in cat lead flow.
 What?
 I feel this is a podcast about my story.
 Where we going with this?
 You know?
 Yeah.
 What's the tell me?
 What's the JJ brand?
 So look, you know, we'll come back to some.
 I want to talk about the, you know, 20 personal branding in 2022,
 but I want to know.
 I think we'll you Austin, you know?
 You know, mom dad or it's what's girlfriend?
 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
 Yeah.
 What's the JJ brand?
 It's really, I haven't been asked that for a while.
 Fun, you know, engaging energetic, but the biggest,
 strongest, most important thing for me is belief, like I believe in you.
 And that's what all the clients pay me for.
 But it's, they don't buy it because it's not sexy.
 They're not buying television.
 They're not buying verification.
 They're not buying forms.
 They're buying someone once in their life, Ryan, that is said to them,
 dude, what do you want to do?
 What do you really want to do?
 You know, because personal brand, most people I'm coming to, like, I just want to promote,
 like personal branding is personal, personal.
 So they want to leave a legacy.
 Dude, I really want to, like I have this one guy's construction guy that really,
 he's a really good chef.
 Dude, I just want to like have a party and everybody to know that I call double food.
 That's awesome, man.
 What's holding you back?
 What, why haven't you done it?
 Oh, just no one's giving me a plan.
 No one's giving you the belief that you can do it.
 So like, for me, it's, I want to give people the belief,
 because if you do this, Ryan, if we, if we have more belief in the world,
 it's the money doesn't matter that it's just you'll do whatever you want to do.
 Period.
 And hey, even going back to the magic,
 selling the belief in the magic, right?
 Yeah, yeah, selling the belief that there's that cod, it says aces fades.
 They turn it over.
 And it's the forest fades, but they still believe it's the aces fades.
 Yeah.
 How's personal branding changed the last few years?
 You know, like what's,
 what there, there was a perception and a mind, you know,
 share of like what it is and what it isn't.
 First, what it is today.
 People want, I know people want to like connect more, you know,
 I don't, we don't want Barbie and Ken anymore.
 Yeah.
 People are, people are smarter, man.
 They can smell it.
 You know, I think there's so many
 messages coming out at you every second.
 You know, like let's say you want to get a doctor, right?
 Isn't just like, go down your local road and find the next guy.
 We're smarter now.
 People like, hey, I have money and I have a problem.
 I'm going to do my own research.
 So I think your buyer is a little bit more educated.
 I'm like, where do I get that information from?
 So this is why if you're the guy on personal branding,
 putting our expert content and they keep seeing it,
 do they're going to come to you?
 They're more likely going to give you a chance first
 than the next guy.
 So I think people want to connect more with the person.
 They want to know like who you stand for, what you stand for,
 behind the sale.
 You know, so for you Ryan, like,
 once if I can give you right now, like, I don't know, you know,
 how many times you, like, put up posts about your children or your family,
 you know, but that stuff's a gold because it, you know what it doesn't say?
 It says, okay, great.
 You have a family.
 You know what it really tells to someone?
 He's a family man.
 This is PR I want to want.
 How do you let yourself public?
 It's a family man.
 He looks after his kids.
 If he looks after his kids, he's probably going to look after my business,
 right?
 Wow, he's, you know, you know, has a great family.
 That means he's caring, kindness.
 I want to be treated with kindness.
 So it's like, layers, you know,
 so I think people want to see that because people that trust
 problem and there's a big problem in the space.
 You know, people don't know who to trust anymore.
 And they're being tricked.
 It's in the mean tools.
 In manipulated marketing.
 By this landing page, it's going to make you millions.
 Dude, we all know it does.
 That's not the truth.
 Where's the lead flow going to come from?
 Dude, I have so many ladies that I know, I don't know why.
 I have spent 18 grand on this landing page business four months.
 That's awesome.
 Congrats on investing in yourself.
 Where's the lead flow?
 I just thought I was going to create the landing page.
 Who did that?
 That's the marketing, guys.
 Telling them, just do the landing.
 But follow Russell.
 Follow Russell.
 Look, we're going to copy Russell Brunson's.
 We're going to do it for you.
 Charge 18.
 And, you know,
 Dude, this girl doesn't even know how to get, pick up the phone.
 Why, you know, like,
 I get annoyed because, like,
 I get marketing around and I get it.
 But, like, it's sort of ethically wrong, too.
 Like, you know, you know, deep down that these people,
 like, especially if you're,
 especially if you're getting, if you've got guys getting on the phone with these people,
 and you know, they don't even have a product,
 and you're pushing a landing page or pushing something down to,
 that's shame on you.
 That's just, I'm strong like that, man.
 Well, you're not selling the entire circle, right?
 You're selling a piece of the pie, but not the whole thing.
 Like, it's demand generation.
 You know, it's one thing.
 It's kind of like, I counsel clients on e-commerce all the time.
 And so, and everyone thought, you build this,
 you know, like the old field of dreams, build it,
 and build it, they will come.
 You build the store?
 I built a wonderful, beautiful Shopify store.
 Yeah, yeah.
 And jobs done.
 No, you got to create social, you got to drive demand,
 you got to create demand, you got to run ads,
 you got to drive traffic to it, then you got to refine it,
 and then you got to, then you got to build some more social cred
 and social proof and get reviews,
 and refine it some more, like, it's not build it and they will come.
 It's, uh, there's so many more parts to it.
 Yeah, yeah, and good on you for at least explaining that.
 And if they want to do it that way, then that it's on them.
 But sending for me to, man, hey, I'm in Forbes.
 Where's the phone course?
 No, you know, and I'm big on that.
 I'll tell a client, like, what do you want to do?
 They're like, I want to get in Forbes.
 I'm like, you're not going to get phone calls.
 So, like, you know, oh, but it's not going to drive lead flow back.
 No, you know, and I always tell this question, right?
 And you can answer this, Ryan.
 Ryan, what do you have Friday for lunch last week?
 I have no idea.
 Yeah, exactly.
 Yeah.
 So why someone going to remember something they rent
 while they're on the toilet scrolling?
 Right.
 Like, people is so much message, you know, that's,
 this is why PR is like out there, you know, how do you,
 how do people keep seeing your message over and over and over and over?
 How can you do it?
 Keep them podcasts?
 How can you keep them TV shows?
 It isn't one move, one play.
 It isn't one webinar.
 You know, yeah, that's what marketing boys want to say.
 Do you do this one webinar?
 It's going to change the game.
 Bro, they also have a hundred grand a month to spend by hand ads.
 You Google him.
 He's credible.
 He's been in the game like.
 This is, and this is the problem for me.
 Ryan is why I'm passionate about it.
 Because this is magic, 101.
 It's like master deception.
 It's master persuasion.
 It's a master influence.
 It's literally like the fake,
 well, not even fake it to you, make it.
 But it's, it's, you see the, that,
 but you don't, you don't see everything else.
 I think what you're talking about so key because I think everybody thinks, you know,
 it's one tactic here, one tactic there.
 But what I always tell people is, how many times do you see the same commercial
 over and over again?
 It's called REIT.
 It's called REACH and it's called Frequency.
 And it, that's the, you have to see it over and over again.
 So you have to do all these tactics.
 They all add up to then move the needle where you want.
 It's not just one thing, right?
 It's, yeah, people, people have this, you know,
 whatever marketing you have is telling them it's like,
 want this, want that, like, no, you know,
 I always, I was trying to go back to people as well and get them to understand it by them saying it.
 So for example, also to someone,
 right, let me ask you a question, right?
 Like, so you want to do this, this and this, right?
 Okay, cool.
 Let me ask you something, what, what are you really good at?
 And then go, answer the question.
 Yeah, I'm great at marketing and branding.
 Okay, great.
 Awesome.
 And you've had a career for like 20 years, right?
 Yeah.
 Plus, great.
 So you've probably put some runs on the board, right?
 Yes.
 You've done repetitions, right?
 Oh, yeah.
 Repeat, repeat, repeat.
 Right.
 So why would that be different in what we're trying to achieve together?
 And I like to let the pin draw because you can say it,
 you can get other clients to say it, but people need to hear them say it and then go,
 oh, that's so, that's such a good point.
 Yeah.
 You know, it's, you know, it's that classic 101, like,
 you know, put the, you know, you get the riches and the rewards when you put the runs on the board.
 Yeah.
 You know, and I'm big on telling people like I work with artists and coaches and like,
 it's not working.
 How long do you be doing it for?
 I'll like 19 days.
 Get out of here, man.
 Get out of here.
 It's a gratification.
 Yeah.
 Oh, I do this.
 Oh, really?
 You've been doing it like, okay, let me see the Instagram.
 So I've got a lot of money and I want to give it to you.
 Are you best representing yourself?
 Well, I'm supposed to get rid of that up exactly.
 You know what you need to do.
 Oh, hey, what's your website?
 Oh, I haven't, I need to change my website.
 How long have you been saying that for six months, right?
 Yeah, exactly.
 So like, you know, I come across very strong and people don't like it.
 I, you know, I know people like you come across too strong.
 I said, some, listen, at the end of the day,
 you're going to have to get to this part in the conversation.
 I'm just giving you, I'm pushing you in the deep end earlier.
 And you know, the problem is is that you want this because people are going to say,
 oh, I'm not interested or don't have the money.
 That's a lie.
 What they really says, I don't trust you enough because of what I saw on the website.
 I don't trust you because you say one thing,
 but then I go on your Instagram and there's half naked photos of you.
 That's happened to a client of mine.
 Did you tell me that?
 Yeah.
 I don't trust you because I saw one thing one night that you posted
 and it turned me off you happened to me.
 You know, so I try and tell the things that people need to hear,
 whether they don't like it, but they all hit them.
 One Tuesday afternoon, Ryan, that we think they're by themselves.
 I'm like, shit, that chair guy's got a good point.
 That's straight guy's got a couple of good things on his sleeve, you know?
 Yeah.
 So what's the playbook, man?
 I mean, you know, I know you guys do a lot of things from verification to, you know,
 Forbes and TV placements and all that, but
 I don't know, but both it's your services, let's pub that as well.
 But like, but it's also part of the playbook, right?
 Like, how do you, how do you build personal brand in 2022?
 What's that playbook?
 You know, maybe the condensed version.
 How do we go on on it?
 Other than the classics like commitment, you know, consistency,
 you know, because dude, if you ain't all in, I ain't going to help you.
 Yeah.
 You know, getting, let's, let's say they committed, they're going to be consistent
 and they're the intention is clear.
 It's not just for a quick hundred grand or a quick mill.
 You know, they're actually wanting to be the expert or the go to.
 They want to actually do these things.
 What I will share is like, let's do it all
 because we both know that one thing may not work.
 Yeah.
 Like, if you just want to be the course guy, you know, you just, I love that.
 I'm not a specialist in courses, but I know how to get you seen on a global level.
 I know how to get people to see you in Africa.
 I know how to get people to see you in Asia.
 I know how to connect and get in front of them because I've done it.
 Done for myself.
 So I, you know, what I try and do is hit the top five things.
 I'm like, speaking courses, right?
 Podcasts, you know, maybe you're being a writer and a publication, you know,
 running live events.
 I just do what I've done because that's the best way to sell it for me, you know?
 So I'm like, try to do it all, you know, and some people may not resonate with that
 because like, I don't want to do all that.
 Well, then I don't want to help you because I don't know 100% if that move is going to work.
 You know, like, you know, it's like the people like, well, I want to make 12 grand a month,
 but I only want to work one hour down Wednesday night.
 Well, if you find it, if you find it call me, yeah, let me know of the Wednesday night,
 12 grand a month guy because I'd love to, like, have him on a podcast myself.
 How did he even frame it?
 I just thought of that.
 I'd be funny.
 Now, imagine that.
 Like, what do you do?
 I'm the guy that helps you make 100 grand Saturday afternoon for four to six, one hour a week
 for one time a year.
 Okay.
 Pretty dulled it.
 Yeah, but what's somebody selling that, Jay?
 You know they are.
 That's what someone's like right now.
 Like registering Saturday afternoon 100 grand.com.
 Don't see your IO.
 Yeah.
 You're welcome.
 Now, I do, yeah, I think, you know, people, people are not,
 they're just, they, they, they want,
 they want the riches and the rewards without putting the rungs on the board.
 You know, like, that's why I like, you know, from what you've done, like, you,
 you've had the runs, you, you can Google you and you, you've, you've got track record.
 There's something powerful about that, you know?
 I don't go out and say 57 million views lightly.
 I say it all the time because people can go, you two me see 500 videos as a magician,
 right?
 Yep.
 It's like, man, like, he, you know, he's, he's shown, he's done something.
 He's been consistent for 10 years.
 Probably he, he knows what he's talking about enough for me to take a phone call.
 Yep.
 You know?
 So who's your ideal client?
 Someone who is working on the company, usually the company is doing two to five
 a year, usually, you know, they're not working in the business on the business.
 And someone that's already, like, wants to, like, now build, be the go-to.
 I like when someone says to me, I want to be the go-to because it's a very clear,
 I know where they want to go.
 And usually those people have a big vision.
 So they're willing to do the things to get there, you know?
 Yep.
 So, you know, we work with match makers.
 We, you know, we've got a plastic surgeon, you know, work with a lot of people in EXP
 Realty, you know, work with some big network marketing people, like the people at the top.
 You know, they want to be the biggest in the whole space.
 So when they have that hunger, you know, it's fun because money isn't their motivator.
 They're doing super well with cash is not their problem.
 Legacy is their problem, you know?
 Being seen as the expert or a big pain in our industry is like, they want to be known as
 the person who gives the right information.
 Like, I'm tired of seeing this guy because he's spitting out the wrong shit, you know?
 He's lying.
 Right.
 Use that fuel.
 Use that passion.
 That's what, how we've been moved here.
 That was me five years ago.
 Like, it was, it was a combination of,
 I've done, and it wasn't because it was about me.
 It was more like, okay, this guy's saying the wrong things.
 Number one, and then number two, I've helped the largest brands in the world and no one
 knows who I am and I could help a lot more people if they knew that.
 And so it was a combination of,
 I'm tired of seeing that guy say it wrong and he has no credibility.
 He hasn't done anything and, yeah, yeah.
 You know, I mean, and I admit some of that was ego.
 I mean, I don't mind saying that, but it was, but it was based in more than just ego.
 Yeah, yeah.
 Yeah, man, good on you.
 And you know what?
 Like, whose responsibility is to do that?
 Yours.
 Yeah.
 It's like, well done him for marketing himself in the way.
 That's what usually happens.
 It's, you know, same with creative and it's like, same with, with talent.
 You know, talent's super great and they don't know how to market.
 Or the guy that gets all the bookings as an entertainer,
 really not that talented.
 He's like, well, I better figure that part out because I can't sing.
 But if I can position myself as a good singer, I can get it in the meeting, you know, with JZ.
 So it's like, it's, you know, I tell people this too, like, because you know,
 you can buy likes on Instagram.
 I've done it.
 I bought followers.
 I'm not, I'm not afraid to say how I've grown, you know, the Instagram account because I did it
 because I wanted to show people like what's working, what isn't working.
 At the end of the day, however, you try to get to the goal, right?
 Is your content and character good enough that if Instagram shuts down,
 if TikTok shuts down, can you still go out and close the deal?
 Can you still go out?
 And if I put you on TV tomorrow, you can talk about it.
 Because the whole fake it, you know, it's about fake it to you make it.
 A lot of people lying to they die.
 They actually can't do it, you know?
 Like at the end of the day, everything away, dude, like, I'll close.
 Like, I know my passion, I know my industry.
 I know, I know what it is.
 I've put the grums on the board.
 But a lot of people like actually in Clubhouse was a perfect example of this.
 There was a lot of like fake it to your make it people that had no,
 they would just lie.
 Their buyer was just all lies.
 And I got in trouble one down in the room because I asked someone.
 He was speaking out, I was like, I got to say something.
 Like, I don't, I probably shouldn't.
 I got to say it.
 I'm like, hey, man, I Googled you.
 I don't see anything.
 Was it, was it, uh, uh, uh, uh, or look?
 Yeah, he was, yeah, you know, hit a bone, you know, and then he,
 and then the worst is like, if you get caught, try to fake it.
 He just disappeared.
 Oh, well, that he just helped his case, you know, you just ruined it.
 And he's a big guy on line, you know, he's a big guy on Clubhouse.
 Yeah.
 So, you know, I think that coming back to the personal brand
 department, you don't have to fake it.
 You just could be authentic because the moment that they get you,
 do you lose distrust?
 It's done, you know, you don't have to be,
 that you don't have to go out to the market and say, hey, I've been in the game
 for 20 years.
 If you haven't, yeah, yeah, for 15.
 Yeah, 15 years old.
 I mean, yeah, yeah, well, but I, I have been doing it since I was 15.
 You know, it's true.
 So it's like, it's actually because people don't believe it.
 Then I'm like, dude, just Google, Google that.
 Yeah, I know you don't believe it.
 I look like I'm 21.
 I get it.
 You know, like since I was 14 and a half, I was getting letters from school
 and go, you know, to private school, college in Australia,
 like going out to work for McDonald's.
 You know, come out with $300 cash,
 but kids are making $4 an hour.
 Actually, it was like $7 an hour of McDonald's, you know?
 But, but people need to see it too.
 And that's the other thing that, you know, I'm big on.
 Like, I have one guy at the moment that he gets annoyed
 because he's losing out on deals.
 He's in, he's in flipping.
 And I said, look, I said his name, but I said, man,
 I know and knows what you do because you don't show it.
 Yeah.
 If they don't trust this, do show me, show me.
 Everyone but once, like, we all want to believe everyone's what they're saying.
 Show me what you can do.
 Let me see it.
 Let me see the client testimonials.
 Let me see the screenshots.
 Because the moment they ask you and you freak, you pause, you're done.
 Like, if I give everybody a tip right now,
 get on the Zoom with someone,
 get someone you want to work with someone.
 And this is totally on your call.
 So, hey, man, you know, love, love who I'm hearing.
 Is it okay?
 Like, would you mind, would you mind showing me, like,
 if it's especially if it's sort of money making service?
 Show me your bank account.
 Show me the last report on the phone.
 Most people cannot.
 Hey, I would love to, this is a great one you can use.
 Hey, I'd love to, you know, really,
 send me across the details of the agreement.
 Or one more thing I need for you to close the deal
 to make it easier.
 I need three phone numbers.
 I want to call them.
 Yeah.
 Do all we can't NDA.
 If someone says that to me, you know, do it.
 You're hiding.
 I bring it up before a call.
 Hey, Ryan, you don't really want to work with you.
 What I'd love to do, if it's okay with you,
 I'd love to give you a couple of phone numbers.
 That whenever you're ready, you can call them.
 Ask them the questions you couldn't ask me.
 Oh, wow, you know, because I want you to feel comfortable like this.
 This is a partnership.
 No one does that, you know?
 Yeah, I love that.
 Hey, yeah, it's good.
 Credibility.
 Proof it.
 Inspect what you expect.
 So come with so much trust.
 And you know what happens, Ryan?
 They don't call.
 No, they don't.
 Because you've given them already all the reason why I like to trust you.
 Yeah, you know, maybe they may text maybe, no, man.
 That's right.
 They they they ask for these things when there's no trust.
 What do you think as we close down, talking with Jay, Jay, owner of Ace of Spades,
 international speaker?
 So Jay, yeah, platforms, you know,
 I didn't want to just talk about platforms, but, you know,
 TikTok's blowing up, Instagram's still big, but like,
 any platform, I know it's all depending on where your niche is,
 where your audience is, but any overarching guidance for our audience
 on platforms in general.
 Yeah, I think we should go back to my space, man.
 I think let's bring that back.
 You know, that space was so bad.
 Yeah, man, AOL chat, MSN chat.
 I feel like, let's roll, let's roll back, you know, to the classics.
 You know, I was, you know, I run it because I was, I had a pretty strong perspective last night,
 but then I saw Gary Veeze video and he broke my perspective.
 Well, he didn't break it.
 Someone asked him, like, what should I focus on?
 And he's like, he's, the girl asked the same thing.
 He's like, hey, I was told that you should focus on a platform that's going to meet the right people.
 And he's like, you should do it all.
 Like, you don't know what's going to kick you by.
 I understand what Gary's saying, but we don't have a team of 700.
 So he'd probably break me on a call if I said that.
 Yeah.
 I think what, and this is my perspective, I think Gary's so in the,
 like, he's so down the rabbit hole, he forgets.
 He may say he gets it, but are you going to remember the,
 the 42 year old plastic surgeon here in Miami wants to do his personal brand?
 He's got a team that he doesn't have nine hours a day to jump around on TikTok.
 Yeah.
 You know, and he doesn't have all day editing the photo on Instagram.
 So, you know, coming back to where his lead flow is, you know,
 where he's wanting to attract them is probably the better platform, in my opinion.
 You know, to people, you know, you know what's a great platform that people forget about?
 Facebook groups.
 Yeah.
 Facebook, I have a great relationship with Facebook, right?
 Because of the verification.
 They have told, like, well, not they one guy, but multiple people on that in the office,
 in the, in the, you know, in the offices around the world.
 Yeah.
 I said, other than the, other, like, the most energy they put is on Facebook groups.
 Because they want so many people using their app,
 using their program for as long as they can, engaging community.
 Because then that's what they sell to the brands and sponsors.
 Yeah.
 That's what they sell to get people to invest with them.
 Yeah.
 So, like, Facebook groups, you can be very clever and you can put in any group you want.
 You know, like, personal branding or, you know,
 coaches that make over 50 grand a month.
 And you can get very clear to those people at least.
 Then you build a relationship with the host of the group.
 You know, I would find out how much activity goes through.
 It says it publicly.
 How many posts?
 How much activity, right?
 Get in the group, check it out, see if it's alive.
 Build a relationship with the host.
 Then try to do something free for him,
 give him free content, free coaching session, whatever.
 Because he's the nightclub owner.
 He's the owner of the group.
 Yeah.
 Once he, once he knows you and likes you and trusts you,
 do you, you've got access to all these people?
 Like, it's amazing strategy that I get everybody to do.
 Because you don't have to do the ads.
 You don't have to do, you're directly to the people that are more likely to work with you.
 And when you, they go to your Facebook,
 make sure it's this credibility enough.
 Because like, I don't know, this guy, I'm going to check him out,
 stalk him a little bit.
 Photos, personal brand connection, credibility, authority.
 Yeah, that's a big one.
 I love Facebook groups because it's so niche down.
 You know, you get right down to the audience and you get in.
 And you know, you get to the gatekeeper.
 That's what you're describing, the gatekeeper.
 I love the gatekeeper.
 That's what verification does.
 Gets you to, like, gets you to the gatekeeper.
 So I call it the ogre before the princess,
 or the father before the princess.
 The mode, the gods keep going up.
 The father, the last guy to get the girl.
 What is the power of verification today?
 Let's close with that.
 That's a, that's a biggie.
 Like, you know, there's a lot of misconception.
 There's also a lot of maybe,
 I don't know if you can put it too high on a pedestal or too low.
 But, uh, yeah, yeah, I'll tell you one thing before I answer that question.
 Anyone who's listing right now, it's not just driven on press anymore.
 This was our USP and the industry, the game.
 Like, I realized how hard it was for me to do it.
 You know, we've done a lot of them around the world.
 And it's, it's a whole process.
 It's like getting a visa for a country.
 If you don't have all these credentials,
 they will not let you in.
 It doesn't, what doesn't matter what you look like.
 Sound like how famous you are,
 how many TV shows you've been on.
 Like, you need to have, it's like, Ryan, you don't have this.
 We don't even say sorry, rejected.
 So the way to explain verification is like,
 Ryan, me and you go to a, go to like a hot bar in, in, in Miami, right?
 One night, we're rocking in cool guys dressed up.
 We're in a Toyota.
 No one looks at us.
 Next night, Lamborghini Aventador, 2022.
 Brand new.
 One of the 50 that are made around the world.
 We get direct access into the club.
 People look at us.
 They ask us what we do, ask us who we are.
 Same guys, same vibes, same clothes even.
 That is the power of verification.
 It's like, it's the, the best way from a social platform,
 social, when people check you on social,
 to give you that validity and trust that people
 with made it is like, oh my gosh, he's verified.
 Anything that he says,
 anything that he does, anything that she tells the world, must be true.
 Pros and cons behind that.
 But at the end of the day, like, I know what it was like before I was verified,
 and after it just changed the game.
 Gets me indoors, you know, people, it's weird.
 I think it's stupid.
 It's stupid, right?
 Then why?
 Why would a blue tick give you that power?
 Same thing.
 Why does the Ferrari give you the power?
 Because we put value on what that thing is, you know?
 Yep, it opens a lot of doors.
 Whether it should or shouldn't, it just does.
 It's a credibility.
 Yeah, and I want to look at the end of the day,
 whether it's a blue tick, whether it's a television show,
 whether it's, you know, the office location,
 it makes your job easier.
 Like, don't make it hard for yourself.
 That's why I tell people, like, you're a ghost online.
 You know how, you're making it hard for yourself
 to, like, get people to choose you.
 If they can't find you, they're not going to give you the deal.
 You know, and as you mentioned, they're going to see you.
 I've had people that have worked with me now,
 but they had to see me at two events.
 See me, see me, follow me, have another conversation,
 have a sales call.
 Like, they need all these touch points.
 Before, okay, now I'm ready.
 They were ready a year ago.
 They had the money, but they didn't trust me.
 They didn't know who I was.
 So that's the purchase funnel, my friends.
 Awareness, consideration, intent, demand,
 and you push them down.
 And it's the same in it, whether you're selling bananas,
 t-shirts, or personal brands.
 Interesting.
 That's the framework of like Nike or like Coca-Cola
 and all the biggest brands in the world.
 You got to get where?
 What's that?
 What is it again?
 What is it?
 The purchase funnel.
 It's the age old marketing purchase funnel.
 And a lot of people have changed it.
 Some people call it the purchase cycle now,
 but it starts with awareness.
 You got to be, people got to be aware of you first.
 They've got to consider you.
 They need intent.
 And then they need demand.
 And so like, and then ultimately purchase at the bottom.
 So, you know, they're made aware of you.
 You spoke once.
 They started researching you.
 So maybe they had consideration.
 And then intent, they saw you the second time.
 And then the phone call you had with them.
 Sales and close.
 Right?
 Yeah.
 I mean, that's your example.
 But that's, it still works that way.
 You could change the names of those things, whatever.
 And I will find anyone that you want
 that that is still the path to purchase.
 And it's the reason why you can't set up an e-commerce store
 and it's not said and forget it.
 Because you have to still drive them down that path.
 That funnel.
 And so.
 And then it's tied in with personal branding.
 I would rather do that with a person's face.
 And I'd rather do it with mine because it's too easy to sell.
 I feel it's so much easier to sell with a personality.
 Then copy, then a graphic, then really engaging video.
 I can connect because humans want to connect with a human.
 You can be at their level.
 Like, I know people will argue with me,
 well, I do, I do a million a month.
 I can't agree.
 Good for you, man.
 Like, how many people are like that?
 Yeah.
 And how much money did it cost you to find that perfect formula?
 Like, this is why it's so great,
 like to give people a move, right?
 Like, if they want to get a win today, do 30 days of a life.
 Every client would probably get them to do that.
 Three things that happen.
 One, it gets them definitely some kind of client.
 Whether it's in pay now or pay later,
 they're getting a win because they're talking about what they do.
 Two, you know, it's going to bring in probably some cash flow
 or moving towards some kind of cash flow.
 But the biggest one is confidence.
 It gets you out of your head.
 And it's the fastest way and the best way and the free way
 to engage an audience because you want engagement.
 You're creating content to engage.
 So just let's skip that part.
 Go straight for the throat.
 Let's go straight for the person when they come up.
 Use their name.
 Talk about your industry five minutes every day.
 You do that.
 Not one person has ever said to me, ever,
 like, it was a waste of my time after 30 days.
 And I don't feel like, oh, that was like, I feel more insecure.
 Man, people want to hear my story, Jay.
 People never reach to reach out.
 I'm getting like people asking to speak.
 I'm like, it's this magic thing that we forget.
 So 30 days of lives, man.
 There you go.
 That's what it is today.
 So value, there's value value value.
 Jay, Jay, this has been great, man.
 Looking forward to continuing our relationship
 and helping one another and helping people.
 Talk about where everyone can find you,
 finance a spades, everything.
 Yeah, man.
 Yeah, if you know, whoever's listening right now,
 something's resonated with you.
 You're looking to get a bit of a plan on maybe,
 you know, I'm ready to go in with the personal brand.
 Or hey, maybe you just want to get a couple of services.
 Maybe get on TV.
 Good morning, Chicago.
 You know, you're open for that conversation.
 Go to acespadesagency.com.
 aceofspadesagency.com.
 Do your stalk.
 Make sure I'm trustworthy, you know?
 And then when you're ready,
 we're going to call and we'll rock and roll.
 Love it, brother.
 Really appreciate you coming on.
 Yeah, of course.
 Absolutely.
 Thank you, dude.
 Hey, guys, you know where to find all of this content.
 Theradcast.com.
 Search for magic and ace of spades.
 It will all bring up the content in today's show.
 Everything, Jay, all the knowledge we dropped,
 all the value that he brought.
 Hey, you might be throwing a little magic trick there.
 Who knows?
 I don't know.
 We'll link to one of his magic shows.
 All good.
 We really appreciate Jay.
 Jay, you know where to find me.
 I'm at Ryan Offer and all the platforms.
 I'm blowing up on TikTok.
 Go hit me on up over there.
 We'll see you next time on theradcast.