The Real Business Behind Show Business with Jesse Palmer, Christopher Sean, Tarek El Moussa, and Marty Smith

 You're listening to the Radcast, a top 25 worldwide business podcast, if it's radical, we
 cover it.
 Here's your host, Ryan Alford.
 We're talking houses today, my friend.
 We're talking Radical Flipping, Radical Entrepreneurs, we're talking Tariq El Musso.
 What's up, brother?
 Not much, buddy.
 How you doing?
 Hey, man.
 What's marketing to you?
 It's a negotiation level of marketing and the role of it in kind of what you're doing.
 Marketing's everything.
 You've got to get your phone to ring, so like for me, my first 10 years as an entrepreneur,
 12 years as an entrepreneur, I never did any marketing.
 I was taught sales and I was taught sales on the phone, so all I did was call people, all
 I did was text people, all I did was network with people.
 And then as the short sales and those things started to dry up, I realized, well, hey, I'm
 building a brand now.
 I should try this marketing thing.
 So in 2000, and I think 13 is when I got into marketing, and today we're doing heavy
 marketing, hundreds of thousands of dollars a month.
 We have TV commercials running throughout Southern California, we have heavy digital marketing
 campaigns running, we have print mailers going, we have driving for dollars, we have cool
 calling campaigns, we have texting campaigns, we have email campaigns.
 So we're just always hitting everything, you know, and I say, you know, in order to get
 leads, you have to hit them from land, air, and sea, you've got to hit them from every
 angle possible.
 I mean, what is it about real estate right now that's just so hot?
 I mean, you know, there's so many amazing things about real estate.
 Like what is people are extremely excited about the appreciation of real estate, right?
 But at the same time, the last couple of years, we've seen the fastest appreciation, and
 I think US history.
 So that's one thing to look at.
 But you know, real estate is an amazing thing, you can depreciate against your taxes,
 you get appreciation, you get cash flow, you get leverage, and it's just a fun and exciting
 business.
 Let's let's back up for a second, Tark, and I'm sure you've done, done these in the
 past, but I do want our audience to know, obviously you've been on reality TV for 10 plus years.
 I'm sure most have heard the name, if not, but I'd love to give, you know, a little bit
 of that organic story for you, you know, just that professional journey.
 I'll give you the three to four minute version, you know, I got out of school and at 19
 years old, I was selling kitchen knives.
 Most people know cut, co-kitchen knives because half the world has sold those knives.
 And I ended up losing my sales book and inside my sales book had all my leads, all my contacts.
 And back then when I was 19, that's how I made my living.
 So I lost my sales book.
 I was going broke.
 I didn't want to get a job.
 I was at a Washington, Mutual Bank, and I was just standing there at the ATM machine
 and I was like, I was like, shit, you know, what do I do now?
 I have no money.
 And I swear, true story.
 I looked up to the right and there was this big cricket sign said, why is the old owl
 real estate school?
 And I had a defining moment.
 I called defining moment a moment in your life that changes the trajectory of your life.
 So I was like, shit, man, if I could sell knives, I could sell houses.
 So I walked right over to that cricket sign, opened the door, walked in and I signed
 up for real estate classes.
 And it was a rocky ride.
 So I was officially licensed, I believe, at 20.
 And my first six months in the business, young, hungry, motivated, excited, you know,
 I completely struck out, I didn't get one sale and I wanted to quit real estate and I
 hated school and I was going to go back to school.
 And randomly there was a seminar coming into town by the name of a guy, Mike Ferry.
 And it was a real estate coaching seminar.
 It was a free seminar and I was 20 years old kid, you know, I just got out of high school.
 I didn't even know that coaching existed in the business world.
 I, you know, for me, a coach was a baseball coach, a football coach, a hockey coach, right?
 Like I didn't even know you can get a real estate coach.
 So I go to this free seminar and by the end of this thing, like this Mike Ferry guy has
 me convinced I'm the smartest son of a bitch alive, I'm going to be the most successful guy
 alive.
 Like he convinced me I was unstoppable and it was like all mindset.
 It was wild.
 And at the end of that free seminar, you know, I'm not forget I walked up to him and I handed
 him a piece of paper as you know, I said, hi, my name is Targol Musa.
 You don't know who I am today, but one day you will.
 By the way, he knows who I am now.
 I bet he does.
 So talk about the reality TV for a minute.
 So I mean, you've done it.
 Shit.
 I mean, most reality TV shows do not have the longevity you guys had.
 Number one.
 I mean, I'd say you're probably like the top 1% if I just had to guess purely unscientific
 guess, but I would guess you most of them would go at a year or two, three years.
 So you're 10 years.
 Yeah, a couple seasons.
 So how real was your reality TV?
 Yeah, it was real because I don't know like here's like if you watch my show, like literally
 I wore like sandals, blackboard shorts, t-shirts, I look like I was like a bomb half the time.
 Like I didn't even think about being on TV.
 I was just thinking about not going bankrupt because I didn't know how to flip houses and
 just unfortunately there were cameras there.
 So like it was all real like at the beginning, I didn't know anything about anything and
 I just kind of figured it out as I went.
 But like how much staging is involved in kind of making the show as interesting as it
 was.
 You know, like you know, you're following the processes of a flip, right?
 So you can't stage that.
 You have to show the demo, you have to show the walkthrough, you have to show the design,
 you have to show the remodel, right?
 Yeah.
 And then outside of that, you know, it would follow small parts of our personal life.
 You know, it wasn't a personal life reality show.
 No.
 It only gave a little peek inside of a personal life.
 So Torrick, talk to me about like your net take away from flipper flopper, you like high
 gratitude, really appreciate it.
 I don't want to put words in your mouth, but like what's your net, you know?
 I mean shit, you know, I'm 40 years old now and I spent almost a third of my life filming
 that TV show.
 You know, it's a part of me.
 It'll always be with me.
 I'll always have those memories.
 I mean, shit, when I'm a 60, 70, 80 year old man, I can go back and watch myself as a 29
 year old kid.
 So it's definitely something in my life.
 I wouldn't change.
 And it's been an incredible experience in one hell of a ride.
 When I say the words personal branding to you, where does your mind go with, you know,
 the Taric El Musa brand and like your perspective on yourself?
 You know, I'm a big believer in like, you know, not just flipping houses, I'm a big
 believer in flipping your life.
 Like I'm talking about upgrade your wardrobe, take your goddamn vitamins, go to the stupid
 gym, buy nicer clothing, get your shit tailored, always be the best version of you possible.
 And it's always, I'm always going under a remodel.
 I'm always working on myself.
 I'm always trying to improve.
 I'm always trying to become the best version of me.
 I mean, I think it's the absolute best business in the world.
 At the same time, I always say, you know, before you invest in anything, you have to invest
 in yourself.
 What does that mean?
 It doesn't mean the first step is to go out there and buy a house tomorrow.
 It means the first step is to learn about the business, to learn how to buy a house.
 And then you go buy a house.
 So it's really important to have some knowledge and it's not rocket science.
 You know, just get a little bit of knowledge and get the product and just start the process.
 And I'm a big believer in, you know, just take your time.
 If you don't get to deal your first month, it's okay.
 If you don't get to deal your first two months, it's okay.
 You don't get to deal your first three months.
 It's okay as long as you're practicing and as long as you're learning because over time,
 no matter what, just like riding a bike, things are going to start to click.
 Where do you get your knowledge?
 And now you've, you know, you're kind of in the prime of your career, like knowledge and
 you know, opportunities.
 You've learned a lot.
 You've got the, I don't know, thicker skin, maybe from the experiences of 2007.
 I mean, like, but where do you, what's your source of knowledge, learning and other
 things now that you're kind of at your level?
 Sure.
 I'm a guy that learns by doing.
 Yeah.
 That's it.
 I learned by doing like, what does that mean?
 Well, how do you get off market deals?
 You got to talk to a homeowner.
 So I picked up the phone.
 I sounded like an asshole and I had no idea what I was doing, but I was calling off
 market.
 And as time goes on, just like in sports, when I was five years old, the more you practice
 had something, the better you're going to get.
 So for me, like I taught myself how to flip houses just through, you know, practicing
 and trial and error.
 I tried everything.
 Nature, nurture.
 You know, like, yeah, you know, like I said earlier, I hate when people tell me I can't
 do something.
 It really pisses me off.
 You know, the biggest coach in my life was my dad at five years old, I learned a very
 valuable lesson.
 My dad was the soccer coach.
 I love playing soccer and he was an incredible player.
 So my dad was actually invited to be the head coach of the All Star Soccer team.
 So as a five-year-old, so excited, and then when my dad picked the team, he didn't pick
 me.
 Oh, shit.
 So yeah, so he didn't like, I'll never forget being at the dinner table, five years
 old, just like crying my eyes out and I was like, well, why didn't you pick me?
 And he said, son, I love you, you're not good enough, but he said, I never forget, he
 said, you're not good enough.
 But if you work really hard, next year you're going to make that team.
 Damn.
 So what was the lesson my dad taught me?
 Yeah.
 You don't get shit for free.
 No one's going to do it for you but you and the only way to get success is to put in
 the work.
 So that's what I learned at five years old.
 If I wanted something, I had to work for it.
 No one's going to give it to me.
 Twenty-thirty years should I, like, well, you look back, I want, what do we want people
 to think and remember about, about TARC?
 I want people to think, remember, that anything is possible.
 I showed the world that a guy that grew up with no money in Bueno Part, California,
 and ended up on TV with a dollar to his name and he did something with his life while
 the TV camera followed him.
 I want to inspire as many people as humanly possible.
 I want to get as many people in the real estate as humanly possible and I really want to change
 lives because people change my life and it's my obligation to do the same for others.
 I love it, brother.
 So let's give everybody some of the places they can keep up with you, some of these projects,
 how they can get involved with you.
 Sure.
 If you're an accredited investor, you want to partner with me on some apartment buildings,
 you got to check TEM investments or investwithtaric.com.
 If you want to learn how to flip houses, which is to be active real estate investor, go
 out there and find, fix, and sell, you got to check out homeschooledbytaric.com.
 If you got a house to sell, you got to check out TARICBICEHouses.com.
 There we go.
 I love it.
 All the places to keep up.
 TARIC, I really appreciate your time, brother.
 I know there's been some enlightening things here for people to get to know you a little
 deeper, a little better, really appreciate your transparency and willingness to kind of
 open up a little bit.
 Yeah, absolutely.
 And if you guys want to see a little bit of everything that's going on, my Instagram
 is The Real TARIC El Musa.
 And the reason it's The Real is because someone stole my name.
 There's your note for people.
 I personally bought all of my children's names on Instagram two years ago, along with mine
 for that very reason.
 Yeah.
 You never know.
 It's a cool brother.
 I really appreciate you.
 All right, man.
 Great chatting with you and until next time.
 We're talking bachelor today.
 We're talking college football, we're talking Jesse Palmer.
 What's up, brother?
 Good, brother.
 Is that good being on with it?
 How are you doing?
 I'm doing great, man.
 I think by now you're getting to be a household name, but you know, for our audience, I definitely
 just want to kind of get into your journey, you know, you can start it and tell it from
 wherever point you want.
 But I think you got a real unique perspective and a kind of a real obviously very unique
 journey and winding path.
 So let's start down that, man.
 Yeah, unique journey.
 That's definitely a good way to put it and tease it.
 I never expected that I would be in the position I am today, for sure.
 I grew up in a small town outside of Ottawa, Canada.
 It's called Pian.
 And my dad was a former professional football player.
 My mom was a model.
 I grew up wanting to be an NFL quarterback and I knew that from the time that I was seven
 years old and it was an awesome dream to have, but it was kind of unique and weird because
 I was in Canada where everybody loves hockey and everybody just talks about hockey.
 My football is really not that big of a deal.
 And I just worked and grinded and played, you know, I played every sport growing up, but
 my dad was my coach and I got really lucky and a big turning point in my life was getting
 a scholarship to play for Steve Spur at the University of Florida.
 I got there right after they won a national championship in 1996, Danny Wurfland won
 the highest in trophy.
 So it was really just a unique, unique time in my life and fast forward four years from
 there, got drafted by the New York Giants, played in the NFL and for about five or six
 years.
 And then started my career into sports broadcasting with ESPN and that essentially is sort
 of what kind of opened up the door for a lot of TV opportunities as well.
 I was so lucky to be able to avoid a lot of pitfalls, injuries, life, whatever it is.
 We've had the opportunity to have those five, six years in the NFL, those were the best
 days of my life.
 And when I was starting games, I was getting a crap kicked out of me.
 But honestly did, I would do it all over again in a millisecond to be on the field again
 with the guys because it was that that's the only thing I ever wanted to do since I was
 seven years old.
 So I'm eternally grateful to so many people and to the experiences I had.
 The college football nut, myself included goes, damn, that'd be a dream job, you know,
 like, I mean, and I'm like is, and it's never a sexy, like you said, two AM stuff.
 You get tired.
 There's always stuff that's, it's a job.
 People forget that, but damn, getting, that's, have your passion and your work come to
 life.
 And you, you got to remind yourself too.
 There are a lot of people out there that would slit your throat for your job.
 Oh, we have a job we really love and sometimes it gets tough like you're imagining and all
 of them do.
 So such thing is the perfect job.
 Yeah.
 But it's in those moments that you really do have to sort of remind yourself, you know,
 don't take it for granted because there's somebody out there who's very, very hungry
 that wants your job and they'll do anything to get it.
 And so that's, it's a good reminder, I think, for people sometimes when you sort of get
 in tough spots.
 What do you think's attributed to your longevity with the ESPN, wanting to go like this
 nature and nurture thing with you, man, I can't quite put my finger on it.
 Like, you know, both your joy in doing things, your attitude, but, you know, I'm almost
 kind of getting at what makes you successful while also asking, you know, that longevity
 is not easy in this sport, you know, in this crowd.
 Yeah.
 I mean, for me, I mean, I just, and this kind of goes back to the point football.
 It's like, I was, I just work really, really hard at it and I study a lot.
 I watch a lot of tape.
 I watch so much film every year.
 I've got just books and binders of notes that I've taken watching teams.
 I put a lot into it and I think a lot of people that do this job, everybody sort of has their
 own, their own path and their own way that they operate.
 Some guys are great at just not studying and just kind of showing up and watching the
 game and just giving it to your rod and live.
 I sort of look, you know, I do it the way I used to play quarterback where you watch film,
 you study the opponent, you do it for a week and then you're able to sort of take everything
 that you've, that you've studied and you've got in your head and you sort of kind of spit
 it out on game day with respect to what you're seeing.
 So I hope part of my longevity has to do with the product that I'm putting out and a lot
 of that really is preparation and really, really hard work.
 I'm not the guy that just kind of shows up and wings it and I hopefully, hopefully for
 the fans and the viewers at home, hopefully that comes across.
 No, it does.
 Again, it's a compliment like robotically, not because you're robot, but because I'm like
 the detail.
 You know, I'm like, yeah, yeah, it's there.
 I remember, I remember like playing for Sean Payton with the New York Giants and I remember
 like he would grind, he was like a John Green disciple who would grind, you know, all
 hours of the night, we'd be in our quarterback meeting Friday morning, Sean had the biggest
 eye bags.
 He was crushing dip.
 He had like a coffee, like double fisting coffees and was going through it and he would
 put so much work into our game plan.
 Our play, our playbook for that week was huge and we would lose a game and be really
 disappointing and just just put up six points and just all of that 160 yards.
 And I think to myself, like, man, like how's he going to change?
 Like obviously that was not a good outcome.
 We lost the game.
 That was embarrassing.
 How is he going to change his preparation the next time into his credit?
 He never did.
 He just trusted the process.
 He went back in the office at 4 a.m. on Sunday or on Monday and just started the whole
 thing again, trusting that in believing in what he was doing was right.
 And that really sort of taught me like you've got to find whatever it is that it gets you
 ready and just believe in it.
 And I have good days in studio and I have bad days in studio and I have good days in the
 booth and I have bad days in the booth.
 But I don't try to try to deviate too much from what got me here and what's allowed
 me to be successful these last 15 years.
 Yeah, I think it's good for people to hear that because, dude, man, you look like you
 got it all together.
 You're a good-looking guy.
 You've been on the bachelor, which we're going to get to.
 And it's like, but no, this guy's busted his ass, working hard, preparing and it doesn't
 just get handed.
 It's like hard work.
 And I think it's good for people to hear that from you because I think there's just
 a something, you know, I mean, you know, you deal.
 I'm sure you've dealt with that in your life, you know, oh, you got it easier or something,
 right?
 Yeah, for sure.
 Like, I mean, listen, listen, no doubt about it.
 And I tell people to sell the time, like my career at Florida and playing in the NFL and
 being on the bachelor, to some extent, did that help me land the SPN?
 Absolutely.
 It did.
 Of course it did.
 But once you get there, what do you do with it?
 Because we've also had a lot of, we've had NFL Hall of Famers at the SPN that got a job
 because of that, but they didn't last very long because they didn't, because they didn't
 work very hard.
 Yeah.
 You know, I mean, I mean, not to get all Freudian, I don't know, it's like I, oh, listen, I was
 very, very lucky.
 I had two incredible role models and my mom and my dad, they definitely instilled a lot
 of discipline in me, a lot of work ethic and a lot of gratitude and appreciation, growing
 up at a very young age.
 And I think staying close to them throughout my entire life and having the messages reinforced
 over and over, I think has definitely helped a lot.
 And I think trying to be around like-minded people, you got to be careful who your circles
 are.
 Everyone's, every football player's got a tiny circle, you got the team, you got the offense,
 you know, but you get like four or five dudes, different positions, whatever, that you
 kind of run with.
 I was always trying to make sure there were positive people that were appreciative of what
 we were doing and loved what we were doing.
 Jesse, I know everybody knows probably where to find you, but where do you direct people
 when they're wanting to keep up with you?
 Oh, just Instagram, Jesse Palmer on Instagram, and Jesse Palmer TV on Twitter, it's pretty
 much it.
 Hey, man.
 Hey, I really enjoyed this.
 I hope we can do it again down the road and we'd love to stay in touch.
 Everyone that's necessarily a passion, but growing up here in South Caca Lackie, going
 to Clemson University, following college football and NASCAR, I got someone who I truly admire,
 Marty Smith.
 What's up, brother?
 Ryan, hey, man, I appreciate you having me and food disclosure to all you guys listening.
 I'm late and I'm very sorry.
 I've put Ryan in a heck of a predicament here is a very popular man, his schedule is packed
 and I have completely food barred the whole thing, but man, it's all I appreciate your
 interest in hearing a little bit of my path and story and I appreciate you and what you
 do there with your podcast and I know it inspires a ton of people.
 So it's cool.
 Thank you, Marty.
 I really appreciate that.
 Our audience has heard of you, seen you on TV, seen the stories that you bring to life.
 But for anyone that has it and for those that have that don't know, some, I would mind
 just talking a little bit about your, your journey.
 Well, thank you, first of all, I appreciate your kind words and it always makes me laugh.
 There's a substantial contingent of folks out there who watch and listen to what I do
 on ESPN and they think I'm faking the accent.
 As if I saw their accent is some sort of substantial benefit in the world of professional
 broadcasting.
 So I'll try to give a truncated version of the path.
 I grew up about 20 miles or 25 miles west of Virginia text campus in a little town called
 Parisburg.
 It's a kind of a farming community, super blue collar, garden country kind of vibe and
 I would not trade my upbringing there for anything.
 The high school football Friday night lights vibe is 100% accurate.
 It is the marquee social event.
 The week it is the identity of the town.
 I was on some teams that were very good and it's one of those things where if you're kind
 of a starting player on a team that's that good, you don't pay for your blizzards, you don't
 pay for your haircuts and the whole thing.
 I mean, it's remarkable for me to chase that nostalgia.
 So I went from growing up there in Parisburg to Radford University.
 I had a brief stop at a school in East Tennessee called Carson Newman College.
 It's now Carson Newman University played middle infield there.
 That wasn't right for me.
 So I transferred over to Radford and it was one of the greatest blessings ever for me because
 I had to figure out who and what I wanted to be when I wasn't an athlete anymore.
 Rather than a greater purpose, which is to be kind, have great effort and great passion
 and everything that I get to cover and hopefully inspire somebody along the way.
 And I'm looking in the mirror.
 I know that I control those three things.
 I control how nice I am to other people.
 I control how hard I'm willing to work and give every last ounce of everything I am to
 whatever that challenge is before me and that I do that with an undeniable positive
 energy.
 That's on me.
 But when I think of Marty Smith, I do think there's this earnest, earnesty, this kindness
 that comes through and you're reporting and you're storytelling that truly is the Marty
 Smith brand.
 When I first started in this, like a lot of dudes, a lot of dudes are insecure.
 We pretend like we're not, but we are.
 So my greatest insecurity is I like to be liked and in our business, man, I ain't a good
 one to have.
 There's a lot of people who don't like your style or don't like your haircut or don't
 like how you carry yourself and that's okay.
 That's their prerogative to feel however they want to and you can't force them any other
 way other than to live your life in a manner that gives you purpose and fulfillment.
 How do you feel about?
 I don't know, man.
 I just, again, I just try really hard to keep the main thing, the main thing all the time.
 Yeah.
 And for me, it's those three kind of pillars that I just mentioned and it's being true
 to stories and if I'm interviewing someone, it's asking them open-ended questions that
 let them tell me their story.
 Yeah.
 Rather than trying to drive them towards a story, anybody who's read my book knows this
 one story about Dale and her junior that really altered my entire approach to the way that
 I interview people.
 This was 2012, I think.
 I had done an interview with Jeff Gordon, the NASCAR icon.
 My career was sort of blossoming a little bit in that moment and I was feeling myself
 a little bit and I started asking Jeff questions.
 He would start to answer and if he started to meander off from where I wanted it to go,
 I would cut him off right there and then I would try to drive it right back where I wanted
 it to go.
 Well, the interview didn't air for a couple weeks and when it did finally air on one of
 the pre-race shows, I got a lot of positive feedback and I was really proud of the work
 we'd done.
 Well, after that race, it was in New Hampshire.
 I was charged with interviewing Dale and hard junior who's like a brother to me and you
 talk about honesty.
 I mean, there's 30 people waiting to talk to him and he like kind of kind of gives me
 one of these head nods like get you ass over here and I go over there and he turns his
 back to the crowd and puts his finger in my chest and he goes, you need to shut up.
 He said, you need to stop interrupting people.
 He said, I was watching that interview you did with Jeff and there were some things that
 he was saying that I wanted to hear him finish and you cut him off and it was rude.
 And man, I was so mad at him, but I knew he was right and because I knew he was right
 in my heart, it completely altered the way I do this and what happened, I got so much
 better as an interviewer.
 Marty, man, I can't appreciate you more.
 Some of the stories you told has been the best we've had on the podcast.
 We've done 150 episodes and I was sitting here.
 I don't know, I can't remember the time I got cold chills.
 Think about Eric Church fighting you fishing and you actually went in the fishing tournament
 dude.
 And you are real and I hope that we can stay connected.
 We can do this again.
 Look, I appreciate you having me again.
 I'm sorry that I was late and I appreciate you giving me a platform for the message and
 been given the platforms that I have to try to share these stories and hopefully maybe
 touch a life or two or shape a thought or two.
 And so I appreciate you giving me the opportunity to do that.
 I'll let what y'all are doing man.
 Thank you.
 Thank you so much.
 Finally, Marty, what's the best place?
 I know we talked about outsider.com.
 We talked about a lot of platforms.
 What is the best place for everyone to keep up with all things, Marty, or even multiple
 places to keep up with Marty Smith?
 Twitter and Instagram are Marty Smith, ESPN.
 So please do check that out.
 So yeah, those two platforms I'm active on and I would appreciate if you check them out.
 So thank you for teeing me up there.
 My pleasure.
 We're talking.
 Acting.
 Everything.
 Christopher Sean.
 Welcome to the show.
 Thank you very much for having me, Ryan.
 I'm honored, dude.
 You are a huge, huge deal and I am just a minnow in your big pond.
 Oh, come on, man.
 Star Wars.
 We got, we won awards, we were writing books, we're, come on, man.
 I'm just a guy over here running the podcast, getting the pleasure to talk to the stars
 like yourself.
 Let's back up a bit.
 I want, you know, I want you to tell a little bit of your story.
 You've got a unique background.
 I love your heritage and, you know, some of the uniqueness of that I really want to talk
 about.
 But let's give everybody a little bit of the, I don't know, the cliffs notes on, on
 Christopher Sean.
 My father was a navy and he's retired now and he became a civilian as an air traffic controller.
 He met my mom while he was serving and deployed in your coast guard, Japan, your coast
 and Japan and my two sisters and myself being the youngest and we traveled kind of everywhere
 our station in Washington, Subik Bay, Japan, Mississippi, grandparents in Ohio, San Diego and
 so forth kind of travel all over Southern California's home for me and acting.
 I was, I was always kind of wanting to be an actor because my father being in the navy
 he would record himself on the little beta tapes, you know, this is predating the VCA VHS
 case.
 He would record us on the beta tapes and then he would send us, you know, little videos
 of him reading us books.
 And I remember being a kid and seeing my dad on TV and my dad's like, you know, reading
 us a little book about a bat who was playing the both sides of the animal kingdom, the ones
 that fly and the ones that are on land and it was like this, I can't remember the name
 of the actual book.
 You know, he's, he was kind of playing both sides.
 I remember listening to that and my dad would be like, hey, Christopher sit down.
 I was like, how do you know I'm standing?
 This is crazy.
 So, you know, my mom would then get that camera out and then she would record us and she's
 like, this is for your dad.
 So make sure you have a good time and make, you know, I always felt super comfortable and
 myself on camera.
 So in growing up, I'm a very, very, very introverted, very shy person.
 I decided, you know what?
 I've got to overcome that fear and I've got to pursue my passion, my dream and I just
 got to go for it.
 So I got an acting classes and from then on, it was kind of like, I remember holding
 the piece of paper shaking, barely being able to read off of the paper because I was so
 nervous.
 And I remember saying to myself, it was one of the most humiliating and yet freeing experiences
 and I have to overcome that fear because I will not allow it to stop me from pursuing
 my passion.
 That's an acting journey.
 So, it wasn't just immediate stardom and all the riches and gold and all, you know,
 like the every gig you ever wanted, I thought that's how it worked, right?
 Isn't that the Hollywood dream?
 Yeah, it's strange.
 I stepped out and immediately put a crown on me and rolled it and started to call me Ryan
 Alfred.
 Oh, wait, that's not me.
 I'm not the king.
 That's you.
 No, for me, I came out here and I really thought like, okay, I have to, who am I?
 What's going to make me unique?
 What's going to separate me?
 So I did a few beauty pageants and I thought if I had a title, I can get an agent and secured
 it.
 After I got a couple of titles, I secured an agent, got my agent and they only wanted
 to write me commercial.
 And so I was like, no, no, I'm like I was like, yes, of course, absolutely, yes, yes.
 And then I remember going home and thinking, I deserve more.
 I got to work.
 I got to show them that I deserve it.
 I was just too complicit.
 So in that decision, I remember I called them like two weeks later after having that intermodal
 log being like, you're worth it, you're valuable, come on, man.
 And I called them and I was like, can I show you that I'm ready for theatrical as well?
 And they're like, okay, come on in, do a monologue for us.
 And I did, they gave me a two-year contract on the spot, signed across the board.
 I was like, okay.
 So as long as I can continue to overcome my fears and speak what I want, I can have it.
 Every audition room I got in, I learned something, I failed and I failed and I failed.
 I wasn't either.
 Whether it was my look, I'm not Asian enough or I'm not white enough, whether it's my
 experience, my resume wasn't big enough to be able to get the larger roles, whatever
 it may be, I failed time in time again, countless amount of times.
 But through each failure, I learned and I grew and I adapted and I evolved.
 And I found that, you know, nothing was going to stop me unless I gave up, unless I chose
 to throw in the towel.
 But my goal again was to like always, always be proactive, be ready and stay ahead of the
 game.
 And after about nine years of struggle, and again, not having complete focuss just to what
 I wanted.
 After being homeless, I cut everything out of my life, I was toxic, I was bad.
 And I started to refine and filter out everything that wasn't helping me in my goal.
 And from there, you know, right after white five, oh, I got a two-year contract on days
 and about three months in, they call me back for white five, oh, hey, we want you to be
 the main antagonist, you know, on seasons five and six.
 And it was kind of like for three years, I was flying back and forth to my white five,
 oh, and days are a lot.
 Like you said, growing up as a kid, you know, having a nation background and like not
 seeing or having that reference point, it's like, that's a big deal, you know, and like,
 and then getting that opportunity to become, you know, a role model.
 I don't know.
 That's cool.
 You know, I really appreciate that.
 And it does actually have like a psychological effect as a child because you don't ever see
 yourself as the hero and you never really see yourself as the hero of your own story.
 You always see yourself as kind of the sidekick or supporting role, and it's not just you,
 it's how society views people of color and sadly, it's like, well, you know, oh, there's
 the Asian guy, and when you think of Asian, you immediately slap them with stereotypes,
 you know, the nerd, the mathematician, the martial artist.
 Now I'm great at all three of those, you're smart, you're good looking, and you're great
 at karate, but other than that, I don't want to stereotype you, I mean, we'll let you
 have those.
 We'll let you have those.
 We'll be good at defeat.
 Yeah.
 But honestly, like, you know, just like, I bet you're great at those as well plus many
 more.
 We're multi-layered people as well as any other race, you know, and it's like the more
 that you showcase that on television, the more that you start to normalize other races
 and that we are just all breeding the same color blood, you know, there were no different
 you and I, I'm just, I'm the thumb on the hand and you're, you can be the pointer, you
 can be the middle, whatever you'd like, we're all in the same hand, you know.
 So where did you get the most recognition, you know, like, and he said the most excitement
 might come from people recognized you for days.
 So multi-level question here, you know, first talk about in general, I'm curious like
 the soap opera person, you know, experience and the day is experience.
 And I don't know, give us some, I don't know, grub or insight to the soap opera world,
 you know, behind the scenes.
 Man, I'll tell you what, it is a very, very fast machine.
 If you can't keep up, you know, Dracovistan always tells me, your name is on paper and
 they can come off that door just as quick as it was put up, you know, you got to be ready.
 You got to hustle for what you want in life.
 Yeah.
 I'm telling you this is what they want, well, then get ahead of the game and start working
 develop it.
 Get on it.
 Like I'm posting every single day and my stories, you know, I post every single day because
 that is a 24 hour window where I know that that's it.
 You have to come to my page and see what I'm doing within that 24 hours or you're never
 going to see it again.
 Yeah.
 You've been in the business for a while now.
 You've had the peaks and valleys.
 You've seen a lot of things.
 I think you're, I think maybe hitting your stride, maybe like your popularity or opportunities
 hopefully are growing, we'll get a little bit more into that.
 You've kind of come up to the business while social media has kind of taken off.
 You know, I'm curious from a business and marketing perspective, the impact that you have
 or may haven't seen, you know, as it relates to the power of social media and maybe your
 career and like how you leverage it or, you know, all those things, I'd just be curious.
 I think that's a great question.
 Social media absolutely correlates to the entertainment industry because social media
 is marketing.
 It's direct to consumer marketing.
 So if you're not taking advantage of that, if you're not seeing the value in that as
 a business person, then you're absolutely missing the trend.
 What's popular?
 What is the new means of marketing?
 You know, you investing time and all that, you got your fans following you, but you never
 know what producers watching, you never know, like you said, what audition you're going
 to get in and, hey, this guy's active on social media, he's a great actor.
 He's talented, but he's also going to bring us, you know, some awareness on top of a project.
 Maybe it's not as big as like some gigantic movie or something, but it's a leverage point.
 So it's smart of you to kind of leverage it and use it for what it can be.
 And that's what I coach people on is like, you know, use it.
 You know, it's like it's there.
 Like we can, you know, bitch about it all day, but like it's, it's an opportunity point
 for people.
 Celebrities are accessible.
 Yep.
 You can build communities.
 If you need spare change and you have a hobby, you have the opportunity to then make
 a little cash by sailing at the friends rather than knocking door to door.
 Like again, there's so many opportunities that can be found if you just aren't afraid
 of change.
 I love it, brother, man.
 You've been a refreshing, pleasant interview in a lot of ways.
 But for real, let's keep it going.
 I want to stay in touch and definitely get up when I'm out your direction.
 Give me up, man.
 I might be able to pull some strings for a days of a live tour.
 Who knows, man?
 Don't don't I'll give you excited, man.
 Don't give me excited.
 Christopher, where can everybody keep up with you?
 Oh, Instagram, please.
 Instagram.
 I'm on TikTok.
 Christopher Sean, but Instagram is where I'm mostly located.
 I will apply to almost every DM at Mr. Christopher Sean.
 One word, MR Christopher Sean as E a thank you for the love, man.
 I really appreciate having me brother.
 I really appreciate it.
 We're going to stay in touch.
 I know we will and you got big things coming for you.
 I know you do.
 Thank you, but have a great day.
 Thank you.
 Hey, guys, you know where to find us, the radcast.com search for Nightwing.
 You'll find all the highlight clips from today from Christopher Sean.
 You know where I'm at at Ryan offer and all the platforms.
 Go follow this guy on TikTok.
 Get a skittish numbers up.
 We'll see you next time.
 All right, guys, to listen or watch full episodes,
 visit us on the web at the radcast.com or follow us on social media at our
 Instagram account, D dot rad dot cast or at Ryan Alfred.
 Stay radical.
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