Alina Smith - Hit Music Producer, Singer-Songwriter, and Podcast Host

 Basically, K-pop is pop music from Korea. It's very, very obvious, but I think there's a lot of
 kind of special aspects to it that Western music pop music doesn't have. I focus very heavily
 on authenticity, like, especially with my own music. Like, I want to just speak the truth and
 nothing but the truth, and I almost kind of went like the opposite way with it, you know, after
 kind of suffering kind of hiding behind all these masks. Now I'm just like, I'm going to say
 whatever the fuck I want, however the fuck I want. Like, just to kind of like give you guys a little
 bit of reality. You know, even something that streams a million plays is not even covering
 like a normal production fee for a producer.
 You're listening to the Radcast. If it's radical, we cover it. Here's your host, Ryan Alford.
 Hey guys, what's up? Welcome to the latest edition of the Radcast. We've been going down the
 road of entertainment and music. We've had a country flare to it, but today we're going pop
 R&B and I, hey, I think we might get into a lot of different genres, but I'm excited to be
 joined by Elena, Lena Smith, hit producer, songwriter, podcast host, and all around badass.
 What's up, Elena? What's up, Brian? How are you? I'm good. Thanks for coming on. Yeah,
 thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here. I know. Hey, you got your hands
 a lot of stuff. We're going to get into all that grown fucking woman's the latest single. We're
 going to talk about that. And I just like enjoy you like the first guest I've had that's had like
 a brand or a song that has fucking in it. So like, you know, like, I kind of, I kind of have a
 potty mouth either way, but it's it's cool to actually be able to say it for a real purpose.
 Yeah, every time I do an interview, I'm always like, can I cause or can I not?
 No, you can. Be yourself now. Hey, it's the Radcast. Shit. Like, you know, like if we were at the
 Radcast, I'm like, I really need you to not not say any cuss words or talk bad. No, it's all good.
 It's all good for yourself. But nice. Yeah, I think definitely it's really fun to have a lead
 single that had that is like that explicit because, you know, it's definitely when I first wrote
 the song, I was like, oh, like, should I clean this up a little bit? But I feel like it's like you
 said, when it has a purpose and it has an energy behind it, you know, I'm not just saying it to be
 a potty mouth and, you know, have the kids think of cool. Yeah, there is a very particular energy
 that comes with it. And then, you know, I have plenty of clean songs that don't need that. So I'm
 not going to put that in it because it doesn't need it, you know, so it is fun to like play with
 something that's so powerful in such a powerful message too. I know. And I can't wait to get more
 into that. But let's start. Let's back up a little bit. You know, we've got the hit of today,
 which we'll get to and we'll talk more about your music. And, but I know it all is centered in
 that in some ways, being, you know, songwriter producer and all those things. But let's give everyone
 a little bit of your background in the industry and just, you know, some of your professional highlights and
 all that stuff. Yeah, absolutely. I was so awkward talking about myself that way. Yeah. So basically,
 I am an artist, writer and producer. I kind of have my hands on a lot of pods. I've been doing
 this for a really long time, just to give you guys like a very quick overview. I started when I was a
 kid. I'm actually originally from Russia. And I basically was in this like kid singing group from
 the time I was, I think seven. I was forget. Yeah, I was a little kid, you know, we toured all
 around Europe and performed in a lot of venues. So that was kind of my entrance into that. And then
 as I grew up, I moved to the States and I was pretty much ready to pursue doing music as an adult.
 Like I didn't really ever have a moment of like, oh, what, what else should I do? I always just kind
 of knew that, oh, well, I do this while I should keep doing that. So, you know, and I've kind of had,
 you know, a long journey, a very long journey. I'm 34 now. I started when I was 17, like full time.
 So pretty much half my life at this point. And definitely for the first 10 years of that,
 I had pretty much like no success at all. And I definitely, I always feel kind of weird saying that,
 because I know a lot of aspiring people that listen, that's not like a very fun thing to hear.
 And maybe a bit discouraging, but I always say like, I had a lot of determines that we're kind of
 holding me back. Like one is definitely kind of like not even just a language barrier, because I learned
 English fluently, to speak English fluently really quickly. It's more like a cultural barrier.
 I think it's a lot tougher. I think it's a lot harder to absorb the culture of another country
 to then be able to regurgitate that culture in an artistic way and serve it to the people.
 I think that's a really tough call. So it took me a quite a long time to kind of like really
 understand what was going on here, culturally, business-wise, like in the music industry.
 You know, and I would say kind of like the 2010s earlier 2000s, it was not like as,
 I don't know, as honest of a time as good of a time as it is now, I think things have gotten a lot
 better. So it was tough, you know, but once I kind of started getting my footing, I started
 having a lot more success and writing for a lot of different projects. I've done a lot of
 things in K-pop, which is really funny because when I started, everybody was like, what is K-pop?
 What is it? What is this music that you're right? And now everybody wants to write K-pop.
 Everybody wants to go to Korea to do writing camps. It's really really funny to me, but yeah,
 I've had a lot of success with bands like ITZY and Red Velvet and Produce 101, like shows,
 these kind of like finding singers, type shows in Korea, Japan, and China. How would you describe K-pop?
 I'm gonna let you go in, but I do want to tell people because like, you know, our audience is
 you know, probably fairly fluent middle-aged, like they're probably hearing now BTS, like all this
 stuff, but like, what is K-pop? Basically K-pop is pop music from Korea. It's very, very obvious,
 but I think there's a lot of kind of special aspects to it that Western music pop music doesn't
 have. It's really, gosh, it's really hard to describe it. I think it's just you have to kind of
 listen to it and experience it for yourself. I will say that it's extremely musical a lot of the
 times. It has great singing, great dancing, amazing music videos, usually much bigger budgets for
 music videos than artists in the West. So it's like a whole experience that is very, I don't know,
 bright and vivacious and vibrant. I really think it's such a great question.
 We'll link to some K-pop hits from Alina on our show notes. So look for that. Okay, I'll
 let you keep going. I had to pause there to get my best interpretation for. Of course.
 Hearing that now, I mean, you know, with it becoming more mainstream. I definitely just suggest
 going on the internet and just checking some songs out, some bands out, you would be surprised by
 what you will find and you will probably love it. But yeah, so and basically I've worked with a
 lot of artists, I've worked with a lot of influencer like content creator type artists that started on
 YouTube like Ken Ziegler and Nikki and Gabby, Nikita Dragun and people like that. And you know,
 I've worked with some traditional US artists like Fallout Boy as well, Betty Ho, people like that.
 So it's been quite a journey, you know, and I've mostly had my success as a producer and writer,
 but very recently I started releasing music as an artist myself, which is very fun and rewarding
 for me because I kind of get to do whatever I want as an artist. When as a producer, I'm always
 following guidelines from labels or artists or other writers. So it is a really fun new venture
 for me to be in for sure. That's cool. I mean, so for again, maybe the unknown, like obviously songwriting
 is self explanatory, but producing is a complex, you know, undertaking, you know, as far as
 different roles for what that can mean. What has, you know, from sound design, I mean, like what
 what are kind of, you know, some of the hats you've worn working with those artists from a producer
 standpoint? That's such a great question. Yeah, producing definitely encompasses a lot and I pretty
 much kind of do all of it. I pretty much produce, right? I mix. I try not to. I like to work
 without side mixers, but I can do pretty much all of it. And I think production is really interesting
 because I think a lot of people feel intimidated by it because they think it's very technical.
 Right. And like people look at, you know, the things I have on my screen when they're like,
 oh, this looks like physics. Yes. My perspective on it is a little bit different. I see all of those
 tools as simply tools. I mostly focus on creativity and music and arrangement. I definitely have like a
 very creative right brain approach to it. You know, and I definitely use the tools and, you know,
 all the things that look like physics. I know how to, I know how to use them, but I definitely think
 there's producers that are a little bit more like on the kind of like creative wild, like,
 let's put different sounds together. She would have sounds like that side. And then there's
 ones that are a little bit more technical. And even though I use the technology well, I definitely
 am more of like the fun creative type of person. I love it. What are any like, you call it out
 a lot of them, but anything that really stands out in that journey for you that's like,
 I mean, not necessarily highlights because you worked with Fallout Boy. I mean, and people know
 that name. I mean, but like highlights from just a professional journey and things that you
 really, you know, that stand out in your own mind. Yeah, of course. I think one of the recent things
 that comes to mind is I worked on the song Mafia in the morning for this band Itsy, which I'm super
 happy about because it's kind of like my favorite type of K-pop. So there's actually a lot of different
 types of K-pop getting into it. And then there's this particular sub-genre called Girl Crush.
 Basically, it's like these badass, really cool girls that dance that sing that rap. And
 the way it differs from a lot of other female K-pop is a lot of other female K-pop is like
 really cute, which I love that too. But I do love kind of like the powerful like girl power vibes.
 So I'm really happy about the song and it's done really, really well. It was a single for Itsy.
 So and they made the most amazing music video for it. If you guys want to look it up just to kind of
 see some really insane video transitions and gorgeous sets and costuming and all of those kinds
 of things, I highly recommend it. I love it. And I know we taught pre-show, started getting you down
 the alley and I wanted to save it for for the recording, you know, some of your songwriting.
 You actually lived in Nashville, has a country fan that that perked my ears up like you've done
 writing on different things. What can you talk about in that avenue? Yeah, of course. So I actually
 lived in Nashville for quite a while for about four years and had an interesting experience there
 in country music. So I definitely am a fan of country music. I did leave the town and move to LA
 because I think at least at that time, and I don't know how it is now because I've been kind of
 out of that game for like five years now. But at that time, it wasn't a very friendly environment to
 females, like female writers and female producers. There weren't a lot of female country artists
 that we could even write for, right? And I think it's definitely a little bit of a stretch for,
 you know, somebody like me write for Lou Bryan, for example, to like write about trucks and like
 beer and girls, like I can, but there's probably male songwriters that can like nail a lot better
 than somebody like me, you know what I mean? So I definitely at that time, again, can't speak for
 how it is now, but at that time, it just felt like it wasn't a very like friendly environment to
 women and there weren't a lot of opportunities. So when I moved to LA is when I kind of started
 having a lot of my success, but I still definitely am a big fan of country music. I even, you know,
 released some music as a country artist back in the day, you know, kind of played around with that,
 but I think it was one of those things that as an artist that really wasn't very authentic to me.
 I like a lot of things about country music, like harmonies. I love live instruments, like guitars.
 I love a lot of kind of like bendiness and vocals too. I still have retained some of that in my style now,
 but I, you know, I think it was one of those things where I felt like I was really trying to
 stuff myself in a box, like trying to fit this thing everybody was doing at that time and make my
 voice fitted and make my style fitted and what I look like fitted. And you know, it kind of wasn't
 working and I learned a really important lesson then basically be yourself. Yeah, that's important
 for sure is, and I mean, because it doesn't, it just doesn't play well. People see through it,
 you know, eventually it's like I, right? Then you do. They really do. And you also aren't happy
 as an artist pretending to be something you're not. I mean, I don't know maybe some people are.
 I definitely wasn't. I guess if they're good enough and get popular enough, maybe, but I don't know.
 Yeah, they're making that money. But yeah, for me, it was one of those things. I just kind of
 felt like I was trying to create myself, like craft myself into something that I really wasn't.
 Like I even visually changed what I looked like because you would look at a brown hair, but I like
 dyed my hair blonde, you know, and I was trying to look like, you know, an American country,
 Southern girl. And like if you look at my bone structure, I look very Russian.
 Really like it wasn't working. So, you know, for me, since then, I focused very heavily on
 authenticity, like, especially with my own music, like I want to just speak the truth and
 nothing but the truth. And I almost kind of went like the opposite way with it, you know, after
 kind of suffering kind of hiding behind all these masks. Now, I'm just like, I'm going to say
 whatever the fuck I want, however the fuck I want. And if people like it great, if they don't like it,
 great, I don't care. Hey, that's the way to be though. And I applaud you for that. The I want to talk
 about the business of music, you know, certainly building to today, but I know, you know, you've had
 your hands being, you know, quasi independent, you know, it's kind of a loaded word in the music
 business. It means certain things, but both as independent as a producer and artist, like in your
 own style, but also, you know, using social media and the avenues and the growth channels, I mean,
 talk about, you know, how you've utilized, you know, those mediums for longer than even most,
 now that it's mainstream, and maybe just some of the alternative paths of growth that have come
 in the business the last, you know, eight to 10 years. Yeah, 100%. You know, I feel like my
 sir's been really interesting because I definitely have been quasi independent. I think that's a great
 way to put it because I was in a publishing deal, like a major publishing deal for seven years. I
 literally just left that deal this year. And for those that don't know, publishing deal is basically
 a record deal for songwriters. It's a company that works with you as a songwriter or producer
 to try to send your songs to artists, develop your career, stuff like that. So I had a major deal.
 So that part, I was very much kind of following a traditional path, but I do think my passion has
 always lied in like exploration of non-traditional path as a songwriter as a producer. And I think a
 lot of my success has actually come from that. Funny enough, some of it has come from the traditional
 path. I will never knock it because, you know, again, don't want to lie. Some of it came from
 these very stylish channels, but some has been very surprising. So for me, I definitely have been an
 internet person for a while. I've been in and out of it, and I'm very much in it now, but I started
 back in MySpace days back in like 2005 when I was like 18 and 18, my space. Yeah, OG, I had a
 MySpace. It was pop enough. I definitely had like a bit of a good run with MySpace. You know,
 it was very easy back then to kind of get your music in front of a lot of people using that tool.
 So that's what I was doing. The only thing I would say is, I thought time why music wasn't that good.
 And you have to have good stuff to like really make this work. Yeah, not like those things.
 Yeah, you know, definitely like with music or any product, I think like the product quality is
 first, you know, for music, I think listeners are really smart. They're constantly getting bombarded
 with stuff these days because everybody's trying to be an artist and they can pick up on quality
 in like two, three seconds. So, you know, it is really important to have great stuff. So, but other
 than that, ever since those days, you know, I've been on every social network. I've done, you know,
 when Facebook was popular, I was on Instagram. I'm on that now, you know, I'm on YouTube. I'm on
 TikTok. I'm on all the things. I definitely think that what I've noticed is that I've had a lot
 of success with is putting out content about production and songwriting. I think there isn't that much
 content on those topics out there. There is some, but I've noticed that a lot of it comes from
 content creators that solely focus on content creation, which is great because it's kind of a full
 time job, to be honest. I have some help. I have an assistant that edits my videos. I don't think I
 could do it otherwise. But I do know that a lot of this kind of production and songwriting content
 comes from people that only do that and a lot of them do it extremely well. But I do think some of
 them kind of lack a little bit of this industry perspective that I have from having pitched songs,
 having had songs recorded by artists, having worked with record labels with publishers, managers,
 right? So I think I put a lot of this kind of just knowledge that I've accumulated over years
 into these videos that I make and I find that a lot of people, at least from what they tell me,
 are benefiting from it. So that's been definitely fun to do. You know, I have a YouTube. You guys can
 look it up. It's just Liar Music, L-Y-R-E. That's my production team's name. But I've also recently
 started a TikTok and I will say currently that's probably the most powerful tool for promoting
 anything, but especially music. I pretty much got, so I've had it for maybe like six months or so,
 but I got on it like really seriously last month and I think I grew like 20,000 followers in a month
 just by posting consistently and like kind of catering to the audience for this type of production
 and songwriting type stuff. So I definitely highly recommend that to anybody that wants to grow
 their following and there's a lot, there's definitely a lot to it. There's, you know, the algorithm,
 you kind of have to study and I feel like it's kind of a moving target too. It's constantly changing.
 So, but recently I feel like I've had pretty good success with that. That's cool. I do want to talk
 about, you mentioned it a little bit earlier with the country music stuff and you know, I don't want
 to be, I want this to be positive, but I do think there is some realities of the business,
 especially as it relates to, you know, female empowerment, female opportunities with producing and
 songwriting and I mean, I don't know if artists, I mean, it seems fairly balanced with the artist,
 maybe not, you can enlighten me on that, but certainly with the production side of things.
 I mean, I know you have a strong stance on that, but is it just, is it kind of one of those
 things that's always been this way? So it always stays this way and there hasn't been advocates for
 it or, you know, I'd love to get just your perspective on it. Yeah, I think it's, it's a really
 complex topic. It's definitely originated in sexism. Yeah. And it is definitely shifting and getting
 better, but I think I get this question more than any other question from anybody. Why is
 they're not more female producers and engineers? And I think it's simply because female producers and
 engineers haven't been encouraged to go into these types of fields. You know, when you look,
 when you're a young girl and considering, what do I want to do? I want to do music. What are
 different kinds of jobs I can do in music? Right? If you look it up and you look up producers,
 you're probably going to find, you know, pictures and videos or whatever it is from a bunch of guys,
 right? And even subconsciously, when you see that as a woman, you're like, oh, well, this doesn't
 look like it's something for me, right? So I think it's just simply the factor of not having the
 representation there. So, but I do think there's a lot of positive shifts in this direction that I've
 seen in the last two or three years because I feel like when I was starting out, I definitely felt
 like very overt sexism about this. I had my own team member on my own publishing team tell me,
 yeah, but why are you putting so much effort into like learning all this production stuff? Like,
 you're a pretty girl. You can sing like you can write like, why do you need to do this? You know,
 and it was very like insulting and definitely, you know, I'm the kind of person that you tell me
 something like that. I mean, like, let me prove you wrong. You're tripled down. Yeah, but I think for
 a lot of people, they will get discouraged. And it's not their fault that they would, you know,
 it is very discouraging thing to hear. So there's definitely positive movement. There's companies,
 organizations like she is the music, which are constantly putting out, you know, information about
 how to become an engineer, how to become producer. They host panels and podcasts and just really
 try to increase our presentation. You know, there's been some conversations like this from the
 Grammy board. So I do, I haven't had any comments like that spoken to me at least in a very long time.
 So that feels really fun. And, you know, encouraging that there are conversations, not just from
 women, but from men to who are saying, hey, like, I would like to work with a woman. I'd like to have
 a different perspective. I'd like to have a different sound, something that, you know, includes
 a feminine energy. So I do think things are getting better. And, you know, for anybody that's listening
 that is a woman that is looking to explore this field. I would definitely encourage you to follow
 something like she's the music. There's even another Instagram account called music production
 for women run by an amazing female producer. You can follow them. And then even something like YouTube,
 you can look up female producers on there that are teaching production, that are showing off their
 production. And you can follow them as well. Because I think if you, you know, it's like you are what
 you eat. And, you know, we all look at our feed and our feed is feeding us. So if your feed is
 full of female producers and engineers are killing it, like, and I'm sure that subconsciously will
 help influence you in a positive direction. I love that. And, you know, very sage advice,
 even though even if you look 24 and you are 34. Yeah. Wow, you look great. And it threw me off.
 I was like, I read it and I was like, man, no, she can't be. She is. Oh, my goodness.
 Hey, hey, we're living that we're old. Hey, you're in LA. I'm in LA. I'm in LA.
 You're in LA. There we go. It's on every corner now, I think.
 You know, changing gears a bit into the back to the music. I mean, is there a song? And I know
 we'll talk about your most current stuff. But like, is there a song or something you produce?
 Like a particular one that's really just stands out. I know you mentioned one earlier,
 but is there anything else that just stands out as something, you know, that's memorable or
 you're proud of or, you know, something that, you know, another track or something that everyone
 can maybe look up or associate with? Of course. Well, here's a really funny kind of industry
 answer to that. And I think a lot of song writers producers would relate to this. A lot of
 our favorite stuff has never seen the light of day. I didn't understand that. Yeah. That
 is definitely the head to see business. There's a lot of commercials that are our favorites that
 never see the light of dates because of clients. Oh, no, no, I've never even thought of that.
 Yes, and that's that's exactly right too. Because yeah, of course, we don't use a music world,
 right? We don't use words like product or client. But really, when we say artist or song,
 like that's what we mean. Yeah. So the thing is, yeah, a lot of the stuff that we write that,
 you know, we put our heart and soul into never see the light of day because it doesn't,
 you know, necessarily a hundred percent fit an artist's vision or labels vision for that artist.
 So it is a tough game getting songs plugged. That's what it's called like pitched earplugs.
 You know, that's why a lot of people write with artists in the room and no shade, but it's kind
 of interesting because a lot of right artists are not really strong writers, you know,
 they're more performers and singers, but they put them in these rooms and they force them to write
 even though I feel like it would be better for them to just receive songs that are written by
 professionals. But you know, that's why a lot of artists are just like in the room trying to help
 because, you know, it helps out kind of their connection with the song. And when they're here,
 we can ask about their life. It's easier to kind of craft it to them. So yeah, there's definitely
 songs I love. Like you guys can look up, okay, by Ellie Moore, E-L-L-I, is how her first name is
 spelled. That is my music partner and my team liar, L-Y-R-E, not like fans on fire,
 like the instruments. So, but she has started releasing music as an artist herself about a
 couple of years ago. And that song is definitely my favorite that I've done with her. It's just
 super, super fun and, you know, warming. It's so catchy that we'll probably be stuck in your head
 for a long time. So if you don't want like a little jingle you think going off in the back
 of your brain, maybe don't listen to it. But yeah, that's definitely one of my favorites. And it
 isn't like the biggest song I've done by any means, but it's just one that matters a lot to me
 because it really encapsulates her story and she's my best friend. So it matters a lot to me.
 Who's your favorite? I'm going to give you favorite mainstream artist, Indy genre,
 and maybe favorite, whether and K-pop is certainly getting major, but whether it's K-pop, whether
 it's off the radar, who's a favorite or inspirational mainstream artist and then maybe one off
 the radar? That is such an interesting question. I feel like a lot of people ask me like who do
 you listen to? And that's kind of that question, but it's kind of not only what do you listen to,
 and maybe it inspires you a little bit. Yeah, yeah, I think, you know, this is an interesting
 answer again, but a lot of what I listen to are demos. They're unreleased songs that are mine
 or my friend's songs. So I end up listening to a lot of stuff that isn't out there anywhere.
 So a lot of that stuff inspires me because I think like that is what I'm listening to is like
 the next wave. It hasn't even been released yet. So a lot of like the freshest kind of ideas
 from the writers directly is what I really enjoy. But as far as stuff that's out there,
 I'm very old school. I love stuff that I grew up with, and that's the stuff that brings me the most
 like catharsis really enjoy. As much as I love a lot of new artists and pop, like D'olipa,
 really Irish, I personally just don't feel that level of connection, you know, that I felt when
 I was a teenager, listening to Michael Jackson, for example, or to Alicia Keys, artists like that.
 So for me, it's definitely like a lot of kind of like 90s, 2000s stuff is what I grew up with.
 So that's what I'm passionate about. But gosh, as far as underground, I still want to keep
 plugging my partner, Ellie more. Yeah, it's a lot of just kind of my friends music.
 There's a really fantastic band called Stereo Jane that I'm friends with. I don't write for them.
 So this is not me plugging my own stuff. They're pretty like rock pop, I would say, is there genre?
 And it's just really, really cool. It's two girls. One is a drummer, one is a singer. They're
 both amazing and they write their own music. And it's yeah, I think it's pretty underground still
 for them, but their music is amazing. So she guys want to check them out. They're great.
 What's uh, you know, we talked about the social media avenue. I mean, can you as an,
 can, when I say you, I mean, a person and artist, I mean, can artists go 100% independent now?
 I mean, like, are we at that pinnacle? Like, I mean, if they're good enough and they, you know,
 have a team and you know, or whatever that, that production songwriting, all of that stuff that
 comes together between TikTok, between self production, between I can upload it to Spotify.
 Like, I mean, are we at that point where you could be a go there? Is it still kind of necessary
 to be signed? Okay. So I'll give you guys some truths. Some of them are fun. Some of them are
 not fun. I definitely think none of us have any clue whether it's people that are independent
 or people that are work managers or working for labels. It's definitely such. There's like an
 element of magic to this, right? Sometimes things just really, really work. Sometimes they work
 on a smaller level. Sometimes they don't work. And sometimes they work with a delay, you know,
 because even like the song I mentioned, okay, by Ellie Moore, that song's been, you know, kind of
 trudging along like a couple of hundred thousand views or something, a hundred thousand views on
 Spotify. And then it got picked up by the show Bull type. And it was featured in the background
 of one of the episodes. And it's just growing like a hundred thousand plays a month now. So it's,
 and it's been two years since the song's been released. So it's one of those things that it's
 really hard to know even if something is working. I do think labels still definitely have more
 access than independent artists. I mean, just being super real, like they definitely have most
 of the playlisting unlock for Apple Music and for Spotify. There is a portion, a small portion
 that's dedicated to independent artists. And you know, we're all fighting for that little chunk.
 And it is a little bit, a lot of it. To get into these editorial playlists. I will state that
 and I do think though that it is a hundred percent possible to have a viable independent career
 because I've seen people do it, right? With enough of promotion on your own with enough
 Facebook ads run with enough TikTok exposure, it's definitely all possible. I would just say that
 it probably takes time these days. And I think we're going to see a lot more of this in the future
 to people that have just kind of been building underground for a while. And then it kind of reaches
 a tipping point and then it really explodes. You know, and that's when they kind of get labels
 knocking on their door asking to work with them. So I do think it is possible. And I'm actually
 kind of excited about it because I think back in the day, everything was a little bit more
 tied up, right? Like there weren't a lot of opportunities. I mean, maybe like go on American Idol,
 like that was like an opportunity for an artist. But there weren't as many kind of these self-sufficient
 opportunities. And there are now. So I think we're going to see a lot of artists that are, you know,
 maybe a little bit older than we're used to seeing because we're used to seeing basically kids,
 like teenagers, early 20s. People that just got signed to a label really young have been
 building since they're like 11, you know, and they got this opportunity. But I think we're
 going to see a lot more people in their late 20s and their 30s and the 40s that have been
 building their own brand and building their own platform and fan base doing really well on this
 independent level. And I will say there are a lot of opportunities, especially if you are somebody
 that can write and produce their own stuff as well because, you know, you end up keeping 100%
 of your master, which is, you know, your recording. Yeah. Not to get into like all of these kinds
 of technical things. But yeah, you get to keep a lot of your money where a record label would
 pretty much take all of it or most of it, or they would make you recoup all your promotional
 costs as well. So I think it's definitely like a very tough thing. And I wouldn't encourage people
 to like jump into any sort of deals if they're new and they don't have like professional help.
 I think like building on your own, learning in like a more paced way is a much better thing
 in the beginning, you know, and as you get more experienced, you'll be a lot more, you'll
 be just in a better place to be able to call these decisions because it is definitely one of the
 most confusing businesses, I think, because I have people that do, you know, friends that do
 other things. And I hear about how much more straightforward their careers are. And I'm always
 like, wow, okay, not not here. So, but I am excited about all of these opportunities that are
 in front of us now. Where does live music come into play with today's world? I mean,
 I like X and remove. I know it's hard to, especially being in California where it's been a little
 more lockdown than it is in, say, South Carolina, though we've had our ups and downs with COVID.
 But if it's possible to put COVID to the side, where does live music and getting
 in front of people play on, you know, this type of stuff, of your type of music and the type of
 music that we're talking about? Man, that's a great question. I definitely don't know if I'm the
 expert to speak on this because I haven't had as much experience with live music as I have
 had with things in the studio. I definitely do know that people still love concerts.
 There is a huge, huge demographic of people out there that, you know, have been suffering
 through COVID because they can't go to concerts. It's one of their favorite things to do is to
 experience their favorite artist live. And, you know, from my kind of perspective, even with K-pop,
 I know that their live show is so incredibly important to them. A lot of the kind of briefs I
 get from record labels and the songs they're looking for, they always include great for live performance,
 danceable beat, you know, because those fans, there's something so magical about experiencing those
 types of songs, you know, when the band is singing and they're dancing and there's all of this
 kind of stage production going on. I just think it's irreplaceable and it's, I don't think it's
 ever going to go away. So it's a very important component. Yeah. What, um, transitioning to
 the latest EP, your first and latest, I guess we should say, producing so long, like,
 2000s, teen, uh, first single grown fucking woman. It's kind of a joy saying it, you know what I mean?
 I mean, you know, like, uh, you are growing fucking woman, you know, like, you've been doing all this stuff,
 like, you know, like, it's, it's got, it's an empowerment song, right? I mean, I'm, I was born
 two days ago, but maybe not yesterday, like, you know, I get it. I get it. You're living everything
 it. It's great. Let's talk about it. What, what was the inspiration? I almost can back my
 into the first to the track, but maybe for the EP as a whole. Okay. So this is kind of an
 interesting thing. So I wanted to be an artist since I moved to the States. You know, I moved here
 and I was like, I'm going to be a singer. I'm going to be a singer, you know, and of course,
 coming from Russia, not knowing a single person, having no money. It was kind of a tough call,
 and I didn't realize how tough of a call it was going to be. I was very confident, and I was
 like, I'm going to do it. I'm talented. You know, and I realized after quite a long time that it
 was a really difficult thing to do and that there's a lot of elements that need to come together
 that aren't just raw talent, right? Because I definitely am not somebody that knocks raw talent.
 I think it's extremely important. And for people that I work with, artists, I always get excited
 what I want to discover, something somebody that I think has like incredible raw talent. But
 I do also know that honing that talent and having development for it is extremely crucial.
 And one kind of like shade all throughout our industry is that there really isn't
 artists development. Back in the day like 90s, there used to be like a whole
 department basically devoted to developing artists, right? Getting them in the studio with
 professional producers and writers and finding their sound, even singing on a microphone,
 that is not a natural skill. That is a skill that needs to be developed. I work with people all
 the time that are like a great live singer and they don't really know how to sing on a microphone
 if they're new studio recording, right? And they have to coach them through that. But when I was
 starting out, I didn't have anybody to coach me and I didn't have anybody to produce my music.
 It was one of those things, you know? And this is just a reality of it. To get with good people,
 good producers and writers, you have to pay them in the beginning because they can't make money off
 of you for probably quite a long time, like just to kind of like give you guys a little bit of
 reality. You know, even something that streams a million plays is not even covering like a normal
 production fee for a producer. So, you know, if you stream anything less than that, like that's
 really not covering the expenses of your team, right? So that's why new producer, I mean new artists
 have to kind of either work themselves into situations where they're working with somebody new
 who's also developing as a producer and writer or you just have to kind of gather a budget. So,
 and my thing was, you know, I was an immigrant, like I didn't have $3,000 to pay for artist
 development. So I kind of had to figure out how to do that myself. And that's when I started
 producing at one point, you know, I kind of was just like, uh, let me see what I can do with this.
 I can't be that hard, right? Um, fast for 10 years, I got good at it.
 Hey, practice makes perfect. Exactly. Exactly. So, you know, I did have like a rocky start with that
 and I never could pretty much release music because a lot of what I created by myself at that time
 or, you know, with some of the newer people that I could afford working with, it just really wasn't
 on par with where it needed to be. And I could tell. So what I did a lot is just make music and not
 release it, make music and not release it. And it was definitely very frustrating. And I think it
 kind of came to head for me in Nashville because at that point, I really did know what I was doing.
 You know, I have been doing it for quite a long time at that point. And I created this country,
 back to country music, which I still think is great. I would love to have somebody sing it.
 If any country artists are listening, it hit me up. But for a girl, you know, guy, it was,
 it for girl, definitely for girl, it was a lot of songs that are talking about, you know,
 high heels and flipping your hair. And, you know, we can put you in a wig, right?
 I know a few people in the business, they will say, well, we'll connect after this. I know
 a few I could send them to amazing, amazing. So, but yeah, I made this to be, I was really excited
 about, you know, I had a professional team at that point, publishing like management, all of that.
 They were very excited about it. But we pitched it to like a couple of record labels in Nashville.
 And everybody was like, we don't really understand this project. Like she's not American,
 she's not Southern. Like, you know, like how real is this? You know, and they kind of called it
 because I was totally putting on a fake country accent when I was saying it really wasn't
 authentic to me. So, I am really glad that didn't happen for me because if it did, I'd be sitting
 here, you know, talking to you like me, it's like putting on a really fake accent, which I don't
 want to do. I might give you some of mine. I don't know if I could, it has transverted properties
 so I'm really glad that didn't happen. You know, and everybody kind of turned me down and it
 kind of put me on a different path. I moved L.A. I worked on all this pop and K-pop and, you know,
 was much happier. But I think it was one of those things. Once I moved here, I pretty much gave up
 in being an artist and I kind of felt like, oh, I'm too old. I'm like 29, 30, whatever I was at the time.
 It's like, I don't, you know, I don't think I can start an artist project now. And I, you know,
 I've been through so much too with it, trying to figure it out on my own that I was like, I'm done.
 I don't want to do this. Like, I am traumatized. I'm done. And then, basically a year ago,
 I kind of started just writing songs. You know, it was COVID, COVID just hit. And I was like,
 you know, all my sessions got canceled. Nobody's coming to the studio. I got nothing to do. So,
 I'm going to just sit down and write some songs just for fun. And I saw that what was coming out
 was very much personal and very like my real stories. And I kind of had this moment of
 catharsis of like, this is the artist that I've always wanted to be. This is what I wanted to say,
 but wasn't brave enough to say, this is how I wanted to sing, but couldn't figure it out,
 because I didn't have the skills, right? This is what I wanted to write, but couldn't figure
 out a way to do it because yet again, I didn't have the skills. So it was just this moment of like,
 oh, musically, like, everything came together, like my experience and just my growth as a human being
 too, like, even that whole experience of being so fake and trying to be something I'm not. Like,
 I basically ended up putting all of that into this project. So, you know, and then I started
 releasing the music bit by bit and realized that it felt really rewarding. And it was great to
 talk about all of these different things. Like, there's a song, a girl that was perfect. It's about
 an eating disorder that I've been through, you know, it's not as dark as it sounds. It's actually
 kind of like a bob, you know, or even a song like, Grown Fucking Woman, where I talk about just
 all the different challenges I've been through, you know, like immigration and even some of my time
 in Nashville. I've kind of tucked some of those lyrics in, you know, where anybody, most people
 probably wouldn't even realize like what I'm talking about. But for me, it's really important and
 feels very like freeing to just talk about what I want, you know, and then there's like songs like
 Hollywood Heart, which are talking about basically LA and kind of like mentality here and the mentality
 of always chasing success and kind of the never ending cycle of that. So yeah, for me, I'm really
 excited just to be able to put things like that out there because as a producer writer, you know,
 I'm always catering to others and what they want to say, which is great, which is what I think
 every producer writer should do. You shouldn't like impose your kind of artistry on other people,
 but it is good for me to have this outlet for myself, for sure.
 I love it. And where can everybody keep up or find the outlet? Obviously Google,
 Alina Smith, all of this stuff comes up, but you're on Apple Music Spotify, all the channels, right?
 Yeah, I'm on all of those things. You know, if you want to kind of follow my personal journey,
 it's the Alina Smith, it's ALIA on Instagram. If you are more of a producer writer that kind of needs
 more tips and help, actually my other Instagram page is Liar Official, L-Y-R-E. And there,
 I pretty much exclusively post content for producers, writers, artists, singers that's catered to
 helping them grow and tips and tricks and stuff like that. So, you know, I have two different
 types of things. So, think whatever you want, I'll look hard. I know, I need a, we need to like a
 produce track for the rad cast. I need some. I don't have to like, hit you up and be like, all right,
 we've got a new here. Give me up, yeah. You got time for a quick segment we call rad or fad.
 I give you a key word, you tell me rad or fad. Okay. Tick-tock. Rad. Oh, yeah. All right.
 Kanye. Fad. Interesting. I love Kanye, but you know, some of the misogyny in the lyrics,
 I'm not a fan. I could see that. I could see that. It's kind of all over the map these days.
 About Billy Eilish. Rad. Oh, yeah. How about the new iPhone 13?
 There's an iPhone 13. I just came out like yesterday.
 I'm giving a say. Question mark. Yeah, to be determined.
 Alina, it's been a lot of fun. I really appreciate you coming on. It's been a great story,
 you know, learning about your background and, you know, kind of your perspective on the industry.
 It's been really enlightening. I really appreciate your time. Of course. Thank you so much for
 having me. This was so fun. Yeah. Great. Well, Alina told you where to find her. Go download her
 latest track, grown fucking woman and go find her on Instagram and follow along with her and
 liar. You do where to find us with the radcast.com search for Alina Smith. Search for grown
 fucking woman. You'll find all the highlights from today's episode. You were to find me.
 I'm always on Instagram at Ryan offered. We'll see you next time on the radcast.