The Mayor of Craft Beer, Nate Tomforde and Ryan Talk Beer Business

 Hey guys, on this episode of the Radical Company podcast, I sit down with the mayor of Kraft
 Beer, Nate Tom Ford, Nate started and founded Poor Taperum, nine locations soon to be 10 across
 the country. We talk about his path to entrepreneurship, growing the Kraft Beer business, helping
 local Kraft beers get seen, heard, tasted throughout his poor rooms, and really interesting
 dialogue about beer business in general and some tips and tricks for entrepreneurs out there
 looking to grow. Really enjoyed sitting down with the mayor and hope you enjoyed today's podcast.
 Hey guys, what's up? Welcome back to the Radical Company podcast. It's been a couple weeks,
 but we're getting back into the groove here at the wonderful camaraderie where we work.
 The work co-work space for our agency Radical. If you're ever agreeable, come see us, we'll write
 on the Swamp Rubber Trail in downtown Greenville. I am pumped about today. I've been getting to
 donate a little bit here of the last few months. We have a lot in common and excited to talk the
 business of beer. I mean, who doesn't love beer, right? No, it's best. Nate Tomford is the founder
 of Poor Taproom and other ventures. He's an entrepreneur and there's nine locations in the country now
 and Nate founded that business and I'm excited to kind of get behind the scenes. Being in
 marketing advertising, I've worked on a few different beer brands, Budweiser, a little bit about
 10 years ago, up at New York, and then now more of the Kraft Sea, which I know we're going to get
 into the booming Kraft Beer business. As much as I hate the snobbyness of Kraft Beer,
 as some of my friends are, and you know who you are if you're listening to this, but I'm excited
 to get into it. I mean, did you ever think you'd be when you were growing up? I'm going to be
 in that, did you know it was just like a dream, the beer business? No, I mean, I love the service
 industry, food and beverage, but never thought, hey, we're selling beer for a living. Never thought
 about that. Well, let's start, Nate, from the beginning, maybe just some of your background,
 you know, let's talk about what led to ultimately the idea. I mean, it's a pretty neat concept.
 You know, we've got some of the people watching the video, you'll see the screen up,
 you can go to poortaproom.com, learn more about the business, but let's start from the beginning.
 I mean, let's talk about like just general background that led you maybe ultimately to
 founding it, but you know, talk about some of your early, early days, and have you always been
 an entrepreneur? I mean, yeah, I mean, from the time I was little, I remember just trying to
 hustle and sell things to make money. So like a lot of people had a landscaping, lawnmowering
 business, saved up my own money to buy a super Nintendo. That was huge then. Baseball cards.
 Baseball cards. Super Nintendo. And then ultimately saved, so it dipped up to buy my own car.
 So my dad's in construction and blue collar didn't have a lot of money. So if I wanted something,
 I had to work for it, earn that money, and then I could buy it. So from a early age, I really
 enjoyed that, you know, that I could put together some ideas by the right equipment and go make
 some money. So that carried on into college. I started a clothing line in college. It was called
 PowerShirts.com. And PowerShirts was in 2000, and we had an online store accepting PayPal in 1999,
 that's really you come there. Really? This is before GAP. Yeah. Anybody had, you could not buy
 clothes online. You could go to their website and see what they had. Amazon was just selling books
 then I think. Yes. So we were, I had all these shirts in my apartment. My roommate just scattered
 all over and I would be shipping people, random people shirts. So I don't even know how they
 found out about us, but it had, you know, it had all the video on the website and, you know,
 we thought we were pretty cool. So we were, I mean, now looking back, you were definitely ahead of
 the curve. So that was fun. They were, they were shirts that had like the positive one word message
 on them, like believe. You were way advanced. Like because everything now, but think about it Nate,
 like now every, that, that's what's cool now. I mean, everyone's got a t-shirt that's got
 those things. You guys e-com and motivational speaking shirts is what you were definitely 20 years
 ahead of it. It was fun. We did a, like a fashion show and we were, we were going to be in
 Hayton-Ashbury district in San Francisco and then unfortunately lost some momentum with my
 partner had a terrible family loss and it just kind of derailed our momentum. So, oh well.
 Oh, so entrepreneur for them to get, to get started in the e-com business. And then it's like
 every other entrepreneur store got grounded a little bit back to the real world. And then it's
 kind of, that's the end of my story too. Well, I grew up in San Jose, California, so the Silicon
 Valley. So, DNA is just, you know, this tech is part of my DNA, just part of when you grow up there
 and you see all the entrepreneurism and you see the, all the different startups, it really makes you
 think through, you know, how can I use technology to, you know, to kind of further take something
 that is easy to sell and use technology to sell it further. So, that's what I like to do. I like
 to take simple things and then not recreate the product, but figure out how to deliver that product
 in any way. Yeah, I love that. I mean, that pretty much the concept of poor in a lot of ways
 that it is. Yeah, let's talk about when do we start poor? 2014, so six years ago. Where did
 the idea come from? I saw tech company had like a short video of, they were basically, because
 self-served taps have been around for about 10 years, mostly in like table tops, one or two
 taps, sometimes 12, and really what it was designed for was volume of cheap beer, stadiums,
 use them for cheaper American, you know, loggers, and you would just try to free up your bartenders
 to let people just pour beer, caps off at 32 ounces, and then it frees up your bartenders to serve
 more wine and cocktails. So, it was really a function of convenience and, hey, just pouring pints
 is laborious. It takes very little skill to pour a pint. Right. Tell your glass, you know, and
 fill it up. So, you say that. I tell you what, we have a keg here, go workspace. I must be the
 world's crappiest beer pork, as no matter what, I have half a glass of foam, and I know, like,
 and I'll watch someone will come behind me, and like, I'm like, watching them. He has no head on
 his head. I'm like, I'm jealous of the poor. I'm like, I turned it sideways. I don't know what it is.
 Sometimes it's, I mean, I'm sure it's not the best draft system. Come on. Yeah. Yeah, it's
 probably as the rolling kegerator is not the perfect draft system. Come on. We'll say it has more
 to do with that than you. We'll be nice. We'll go with that. I digress. So, yes. Yeah.
 Doing a walk you through 2014. I moved from Santa Cruz, California to Asheville, North Carolina.
 One to get closer to my wife's family here in Greenville where I now live, but the other was because
 Asheville was one of the new up-and-coming craft beer kind of mecca places. And so, I thought,
 if I was going to move back to the south or southern region that that would be a good place to
 kind of test the concept. So, I got in touch with the tech company out in California and really
 talked to them about a concept that would be started from scratch, like a true self-serve bar.
 Not just six taps or 12 taps, like the architecture of the building, the way the setup, the layout,
 everything would be this giant tap system of beer, wine, cider, and create an entire 100%
 self-serve bar for beer and wine. It hadn't been done before. There was a place in San Diego that had
 a few, had a lot of taps, but they still had a bar. So, people were using it as like a widget,
 kind of a marketing thing. I wanted it to be an entire business plan because for me it was about
 variety and selection, not about, hey, here's this cool technology. I'm a big believer that technology
 should be used to standardize the delivery of a product, but not necessarily replace people
 and get rid of labor. It does naturally help reduce some labor in a restaurant,
 but if you're going to open a self-serve place for that reason, you're doing it for the wrong
 reason in my personal opinion, we used it as a way to try lots of different beers and wines
 because you pay as you go by the ounce. See, the idea is that the variety and selection
 really dictated the business plan. That makes sense. I've been to the wine bars that have the
 machines and things like that. I always liked that concept of, because the biggest thing with
 trying a new beverage is ordering a whole drink or even if you wanted a grocery store and
 ordering a whole bottle, you're like getting to, hey, we have an ounce of this to really try it
 before you buy it or you're buying the ounce, but instead of buying a full beer, full, it's less
 risky. Yeah, exactly. A lot less risky. So, first pour opens 2014. It was the first one. In West
 Asheville on Haywood Road, and there was 54 taps there, 56, my fault, 48 beers and eight wines,
 56 taps, and it was the largest self-serve bar that ever been opened in the first 100 percent
 self-serve bar in the country. How it had to go? I mean, was it a new concept? First one,
 first one of these things, always a little bit, you know, dicey. It was really difficult,
 in a lot of ways, just the networking, the layout, getting permits and licenses. It was very
 confusing to the alcohol up there. It's ALE, alcohol law enforcement, North Carolina and South
 Carolina. It's sled. Those agencies do not like new things. So, it was a lot harder than people
 realize. It's still as hard six years later. We've just figured out how to navigate through and
 educate local officials and everything that it's not a frat party, pay $15 and drink till you
 drop from a solo cup keg. There's something that they think that the bartender being in between
 the person and the alcohol is somehow, and don't get me wrong, I know that good bartenders
 know we're not to over serve people, but at the same time, there's a lot of misguided assumptions
 that that bartender is stopping someone from drinking more than they should.
 Correct. Well, unfortunately, that bartender's not getting paid very well, so all of their
 money is tips. So, they don't want to stop people from drinking because they'll make more in tips.
 And like you said, that's certainly not the majority of bartenders there. They're doing a great
 job. But again, the idea for serving how many ever people, it's not there. It's infeasible for
 them. Yeah, if someone's falling over, you, of course, but you know, if someone's
 falling over at Port Aperum, you've got enough people there that they're not letting that happen
 either, right? Correct. And the way the system works is based on alcohol volume and, you know,
 wine is less, but it's 32 ounces of beer is the largest single serving in most states before
 you get to a pitcher. And then a pitcher of beer has to be shared between two or more people.
 So the 32 ounces is a good cutoff spot to basically check on somebody, right? Make sure that they're
 not slurring their speech. Make sure that they're not stumbling. I mean, and you're not serving people
 under 21. Those are the three main things you have to be aware of as a bartender. So we,
 we still have bartenders. They're just more hosting, talking to people about the product, showing
 them how to work the system. It's more of a laid back kind of like house party vibe because
 you can get as little as much as you want. You don't have to wait on anybody. You also aren't
 pressured into, hey, you want another drink? Yeah. Are you sure? You don't want another drink. And
 you feel like, I better leave this table because I'm tying up this server of bartenders table. And
 I don't want them to, you know, it's this like game that you're, how long can I stay without
 having to buy another drink I already had to, you know, so what's interesting is the system,
 I think, is more efficient at catching that because it doesn't care how much money you have or
 how good looking you are. It's going to cut you off when you hit 32 ounces and then you're going
 to be forced to talk to a beer host or a bartender server and you are, you're going to get a
 site check just like a bartender should be doing every time they serve you drink. They should be
 looking at you and making sure that you're, you know, that it's okay to serve you another drink.
 So anyway, that's kind of the legal side of things. As far as the reception,
 most, I don't know how many people listening to this know Asheville, but Asheville is a unique place
 and new concepts are not that welcomed even though we're just a, you know, local business that
 lived in West Asheville, it definitely was, you know, a different thing for people. Now at the time,
 there was only eight breweries in Asheville. Now there's 43 in proper Asheville. There was a very
 few beer bars. So it was a great platform to showcase local beer because a lot of those breweries
 didn't have tap rooms. Now they all have these amazing tap rooms, but at the time we would do tap
 takeovers every week. Local breweries like Highwire and Highland and Greenman and Kataba and all
 these places were very excited because not a lot of people would drive out to their tap rooms. They
 wanted to, you know, showcase their beer and being able to try their beer and put four different
 beers on tap and have them try them and then they could, you know, go buy what they wanted from
 the store and then we started doing crawler cans in 2015, which was there was only about eight to
 ten places in the country doing crawlers at the time. So that was kind of new. It's canning a single
 can, which is very popular now, but you fill it up on draft and then you seal it, can it one at a
 time and we were selling like 300 of those a month for a while because it was, it was so new and novel.
 Overall, I mean we did really well sales wise and I think the community saw that, you know,
 I was owner operator a year and a half just putting in time in the community, you know,
 supporting the breweries. All we do today, still today is showcase local and regional craft beer.
 That's why we call it a beer festival every day. We do also have a good amount of wine and cider
 have some means and, you know, a lot of variety. Now, the seltzers are more popular,
 but you can still support a craft brewery. They make seltzers so you don't have to just go get
 a big brand seltzer. You can still support that local person. It's just as good, better ingredients.
 So that's really kind of how it started in Asheville and then we had an opportunity to open a
 location here in Greenville and that was really for family and my brother-in-law runs this
 store here in Greenville and downtown and so we went a little bigger, bigger space. Did 70 taps
 here and it was pretty bonkers from the start. Just very busy, big space, dog friendly. We partnered
 with the Mexican restaurant. Green goes next store to provide all the foods. We didn't have to
 have a kitchen. So we had that kind of setting and vibe of a brewery downtown and Blue Ridge
 Mountain was there, but then they eventually moved to Greer. So we were kind of that big craft
 beer place downtown and that was in 2016. So we've been here now four years.
 So talk to me about like the technology side, you know, where that comes in. Is that all in the
 dispensing of, you know, the ounces and things like that? Yeah, there's a valve in a flow meter.
 There's nothing new about valves and flow meters. They're on gasoline and oil and different things
 like that. And so we had partnered with a tech company. We have a different partnership with a
 different tech company now. And so, you know, I helped a lot in kind of beta testing things and
 looking at customer perception and how they interacted with the screens because every,
 every tap has a tablet above it, which acts as a digital tap handle. So we can change that tap
 handle. And it gives you tasting notes in the breweries logo and ABV and then the price per ounce.
 So it's very informational. It's a huge part of the visual appearance of a place as well.
 And we can change it automatically. And so the technology allows for
 keeping a live tab. So you just come in and you open a tab just like any bar and then you just
 pay for what you drink. So you can get four ounces and be done or you can have, you know, two or three
 beers. So they're the technology obviously is a huge portion of poor tap room. And then you just
 close out your tab at the end of the night or you walk out and we add 20% tip just like any other
 bar. So how's the, no domestic beer I assume like you're normal. No, we put domestic beers on,
 but, but like, yeah, I mean, yingling is craft, but, um, PBR Madelo. I mean, we want to have some
 cheaper, easier drinking options. Um, I don't like to have a ton of Inbev products on Inbev as
 owns Budweiser. Yeah. Lots of other craft breweries. They don't love craft beer, obviously.
 So I don't love them. It's just as simple as that. I mean, I try to be the mayor of craft beer.
 And so most people don't need to taste Budweiser. So there's right, but we will have PBR, um,
 and like I said, Madelo, three or four or five options depending on the location,
 easy drinking beers that, um, you know, you can come in and get for, you know, $3 a pint.
 Right. That type of thing. What, what do you think, you know, how, you know, starting in 14,
 you know, six years in, we'll get to some of the, uh, the likes, the additional locations. I know
 you're denying now. Yeah. But what have you seen is the, the business of beer and how it's
 changing and evolving. You know, you talked about an Asheville, you first there, there's,
 you know, seven or eight breweries. And now, you know, with the, the ability for them to have
 tap rooms, there's 40 plus. So obviously a boom market with craft overall. But talk about any
 of the, just business and of beer general, the evolution that you've seen, you've just in the
 last six years. What, I mean, what are things that stick out to you? Yeah. Beer trends are
 interesting. So a couple of different things. Beer trends, the, uh, tap room mentality for the breweries
 now. Um, and then just the number of breweries and beer spots has drastically increased. It's
 just a lot more competitive now. Um, there's thousands of more breweries today than there was six
 years ago. I don't know the exact number, but it's, it's in the thousands, someone like three or
 four thousand and now there's close to seven thousand. It's almost doubled in six years. So
 nationwide. So we are a national company now, but we, um, we can get into that later, but they're
 partnerships where we're not a franchise. Um, so styles are interesting. We had a sour section
 back in 2015. And sours were totally new. Most of the sours came from Belgium. And Belgium,
 been making sours for hundreds of years. American brewers started finally doing that. Sours,
 you know, age to has different types of bacteria, whether it's lactobacillus or, um, just,
 there's lots of different types. Um, and, um, so that was a new style craft cider started growing
 citeries are a big deal. Um, you know, most cider like that I had was like horns bees or something.
 It was incredibly sweet. I love the blueberry cider. Uh, it's, uh, it's, uh, I think I'm convinced
 it's like 70 grams of sugar probably, but yeah. Well, the craft ciders are using more natural
 ingredients. They're not adding sugar and all these different things. So, um, so that the beer
 trends, that's really interesting. IPAs have always been big, but, um, some of the other things
 that have come around, I think now craft breweries have realized that most people in a lot of
 Americans, they want an easy drinking beer. So there are craft loggers and pilgrims. You don't
 just have to buy a cheap, you know, American logger. You can buy a logger made with 100 percent
 pills and malt from riverbend malt house up in Astral. Like a high wire does. They make 100 percent
 pills and malt logger. It's fantastic. So I know all the craft, all the craft beer people
 are going to poo poo me. I'm just going to say it though. And I enjoy one or two craft beers.
 Mm hmm. I'm not a happy guy. Right. So I'm not, I did buy big IPAs just have never been my thing.
 I've, but I've just been 100 percent transparent. I have not found, you know, on a good
 game day Saturday where I like to have four to six motor lights. Sure. And I have no affinity to
 motor light. It's just easy to drink. I have yet. And I'm in, this is your challenge.
 I, everyone always goes, but you haven't had the, the blonde blah blah. And I'll, I'll have two
 and I want no more, but I want more. You know what I'm saying? But I don't want any more of that.
 I am still trying to find the every day you're going to have four or five and not be falling.
 I'm 65 to 50. I'm not falling over after four or five beers. You know, like, but, you know,
 like that's a comfortable level for me on an enjoyment. I've yet to find the craft beer that
 is that one. So there's your challenge. There's, there's dozens. And just here locally, regionally.
 Have you tried the aligash white? No, yeah, I've tried the aligash white. I can see that's a Belgian
 wit. You want a, you want a light American logger. And there are multiple crafteries that make light
 American loggers that are 4.5% alcohol, which is what a Miller light is. And they're going to be
 clean and crisp and carbonated and easy drinking. I mean, it pills, nerves and loggers is probably where
 you need to stay. I mean, Belgian wits or wheat beers, they're going to be. And I like the
 the ones that are tasty, but like what I'm going to have one or two. And I'm fine with that. I
 appreciate that. I love the different flavors. I enjoy it. Yeah. But when I'm looking to liberate a
 little, as we call it, on a variety, celebrate a little anyway. I don't know. So there, that is,
 I guess that's what I'm saying about the trends is they've crafteries have realized that. And
 now they're making those 100 calorie, 4.5% loggers and pilseners, but they're using wholesome
 ingredients. You know, they're using malt and hops, yeast and water. They're not putting corn
 or adjuncts is what it's called into the beer. They're, they're still using good ingredients.
 So, you know, like I said, high wire logger is a fantastic, you know, four and a half percent,
 maybe 4.7% alcohol beer that you could drink for to six of them. And you know, it's not going to
 be too sweet. It's not going to be, you know, too happy. And, and so keep looking or I'll,
 oh, after the show, I'll give you a list. I'll be down in or come over to the poor and we'll
 sample some. Yeah, we have a huge section that we just call light beers. So they're lighter in
 color mostly and lighter in alcohol. And so we have general categories. They're not really
 styles of beer. So we have a lot of styles within that section, just to keep to simplify it.
 So people can go to that area. One thing I found, you know, it's fascinating, you know, being a
 marketer, you know, I know it's grown. You know, I think it, I think, correct me if I'm wrong,
 a lot of these breweries are started by love beer lovers. They're wanting to follow their passion.
 And I'm wondering when it clicks in, like, I really need to make money doing this versus it's a
 hobby. And you have so many people. And so how many people are coming into craft now because they
 want to get bought by Budweiser or how many are coming in because it's still that love and
 affinity for the grains and the making of something. You know, like, I'm fascinated by the,
 just the balance of those things because, you know, you got to sell enough beer to make some
 money and to make enough money to make it worthwhile. But then there's the love of craft and then
 the selling to Budweiser. Which one is it? Like what? Right. I think that pre-2000,
 oh, I don't know, 15, 16, it was your home brewer's passionate. I want to do this for a living. I
 enjoy that, the community aspect of it. And I would still say the majority of all craft brewery
 owners are in it for the reasons of, for the love of the grain and the malt and community.
 That I think first and foremost, what makes craft beer unique is that it's locally made. And so
 when you're part of a local community, you're making a product on site and you're opening your
 doors up for people to enjoy that. You're supporting something local. You're not just buying it,
 buying Budweiser from the grocery store and it's made wherever it's made. So there's that approach.
 So I think most people that are in it for the right, there are more and more businessmen getting
 into craft beer that care more about money than the community. So it's going to happen. It's the
 evolution of an industry, right? People, it starts growing, right? And then more people pay attention
 and say, oh, I can make some money on that. So we're going to invest. So you will see more and more
 of that. But I still say a large, large majority of people are doing it for community and because
 they love beer. And part of the reason why people are getting into it more for the money is
 the tap room sales. So I saw that from the beginning, that's why I wanted to do a tap room and not
 open a brewery as I loved beer. But I didn't have the skill set to brew beer. And so I thought,
 well, selling it, buying it wholesale and selling it retail was, for me, the best way to be a part
 of the community, enjoy, you know, connect with the brewers and support them. But then, you know,
 make money that you have to in business. So it's an interesting balance now because from the
 beginning of beer, breweries would sell beer to the pubs and then people drank at the pubs.
 There wasn't a lot of breweries that had their own tap rooms. I mean, 10 seats at a bar and you come
 up and order a pint or do a tasting or take a brewery tour. But they weren't large bars.
 And so what started to happen in Asheville and his start is now everywhere is that you have breweries
 acting as the manufacturer and as the retailer. And that's a really tricky thing. I still
 struggle with it because all we do is buy other people's products. But then now they're competing
 against us for the tap room sales. So how do you handle that? I don't know. It's, well, you have the,
 you have tricky, you're great differentiators, the variety, right? Correct. Because Jimmy,
 terrible craft name. Don't ever call your, you know, and I love Jimmy's. We work with the company
 that's Jimmy's and I love Jimmy. So Jimmy, if you're listening to this, I love you. But Jimmy's craft
 beer is not maybe the best craft beer, but it's my example. But Jimmy's isn't going to have,
 I'm going to say something that's not crappier anymore. Like we could weed. I think they're
 owned by like, I'd love Budweiser now. Exactly by point of all this. But you know, Jimmy's isn't
 going to have we could weed on half and all that. He's only going to have Jimmy's, right? Correct.
 So that's your great, always your great differentiators, you know, the selection of variety,
 but at the same time, I get it. It's a challenge. Yeah. I mean, every poor top, when you go to a
 will have probably half of roundabout half of the tops will be local or regional within an hour or
 two. So you can come to one place like you would at a beer festival and taste, you taste two ounces
 of 13 different beers before you find something you like. I mean, there's, it's endless. So to me,
 the tasting room, that is our advantage. There is a, when you can come to one place and try a beer
 from virtually every brewery in the area that that distributes, that does sell their beer.
 That's a tagline, brother. I'm looking at this right now and like to get into my poor tap room,
 the craft beer person's tasting room. Yeah, you know, there's, there's, hey, yeah. Hey, you
 you must be good at this. No, it's yeah, but that is, you know, it's a, so there's a struggle there
 and you have to be, you do have to be, find something unique. You have to find a widget,
 unfortunately, to make yourself different. You're just the same as everyone else. So, you know,
 always location first. I mean, breweries still have a hard time. They can't just go in downtown
 because there are regulations. When you're brewing beer, it puts off odors and smells and you can't
 just be downtown around a million dollar apartments like in Greenville. So you have to still,
 they're just regulations where you can manufacture and produce beer. So, tap rooms, places like
 a poor tap room will be able to still compete with top notch locations in downtown areas
 where you're getting high volume. People can taste a lot of stuff. And then we encourage people to
 go out to the breweries that they like. I mean, it's a, we're supporting and making breweries money.
 So there's no reason for this symbiotic relationship to continue. It just is a little trickier than
 it was in 2014-15. So we're navigating that space. I think breweries understand that. They're still
 trying to push people out to the pubs and the tap rooms, but they're also competing in the
 bar business. So I don't really know what else to say about it except that we have to just keep
 winning on excellent locations and keep offering variety. And then you've got to make a space
 fun. It's got to be dog friendly. You've got to have games. It's got to be family friendly. You
 got to have some food, but you don't need to be a full restaurant. But you do need to offer some
 form of hot food. And so those are the challenges that we continue to, you know, face as we grow.
 Our growth has been through an early adopters, kind of friends and family network that we decided
 to basically create a partnership or a license. So they have a lot of freedom to do their own
 thing. They use our brand. We teach them. There's a lot of consulting. You know, we teach them how
 to open the business to navigate local laws, help them secure a lease because the power of the
 brand and our proven concept secures a plus locations. That's the number one thing that we really
 offer is that brand, the marketing, the website, social media. So I mean, I did all of our social
 media for three or four years before I kind of outsourced it. So that's that Silicon Valley,
 you know, just wanting to kind of do things and understanding it enough to get to get by.
 I think as far as social media is concerned, we have some of the biggest impact for a bar that
 you would have because we're very Instagrammable. We're very, you know, videos and it's a very
 visual place. Those screens light up at night and it's an impressive, you know, appearance compared
 to say an average bar. So, you know, the growth has been what I love to do today is help other people
 open their own business. You know, it's a big dream for a lot of people to be able to open it up
 and it can be, it's extremely complicated to start, but then after you learn and you train on
 that, it can be very relaxing compared to a typical restaurant because you're hanging out with
 customers, you're talking them about the product and showing them away, rather than constantly,
 you know, pouring pints endlessly, you know, just you don't have time to really talk to customers.
 That's the, that's what's interesting is when you come to a poor tab where you have more time
 to talk to staff and learn about the local scene or what, you know, different beers to try
 because they can direct you that way. Rather than a bartender who's lily, it's transaction,
 I'll give you money, you hand me a pint. And so for beer, that skill set, anybody can learn to
 pour a beer. I mean, it takes practice, but it's different than a cocktail or even talking to
 Somalia about wine and tasting notes. So that will always, you know, in my opinion continue. You
 can put cocktails on tap, you know, margaritas, mules, things like that work really well on tap,
 but you're, you're never going to be able to like get an old fashioned or a man hat and or
 something like that. That's going to taste good. So the goal again for poor tab room is not to
 replace bartenders. It's to transition their role from a bartender to a host to someone who
 spends more time with people and talking about product and less time just hustling and serving.
 So we're in nine total markets now. Yeah, we just announced our 10th in Buffalo, New York.
 Okay. Opening this summer that just came out. So we just kind of went to the media with that
 early this week. Atlanta, mostly southeast. Yeah, Knoxville, Tennessee, Durham, Charlotte,
 Wilmington, North Carolina, Charleston, Greenville, St. Petersburg, Florida, Atlanta,
 and then Santa Cruz, California, where I'm from, my best friend growing up opened a spot out there.
 So where do you see all this going? That's a, that's a good question. I mean, I, I enjoy helping
 other people open a spot. So as long as there's interest, we're, we don't do hardcore marketing
 sales right now. We're very picky. We have a long kind of application process. It's about
 five steps to kind of get through. And we want to, because it's a partnership and we don't have
 this 200 page franchise agreement. We have, it's very interpersonal. So we take our time.
 It's a long kind of sales process. So to speak, it can be a year and a half or so.
 From the time we start talking to somebody till they actually get open, just because leasing a
 building and upfitting it and all of that can take takes six to eight months as is. So I'm not
 saying I won't franchise someday. I think if we can dial in a model and it makes sense,
 franchises are not evil. I mean, it's the number one small business in America is opening a
 franchise, not just food and beverage, it's construction, it's windows, it's, you know, lots of
 different things, pet care. There's so many franchises because it's a proven model. And so if you want
 to, you know, have a career, a job, or be self-employed, you, you pay somebody some money and they
 teach you how to run a business and it's yours. So definitely open to doing that someday if we
 can dial it in. The problem early on, which is not so much anymore, is that craft beer is local.
 And you can't, you know, just regulate the product. You want it to be very unique for each location.
 And now we wanted to find the best location possible. So every poor tap room looks completely
 different and unique. You have like our Wilmington Stores and an old 1900s bank. They put the
 windtaps in the vault. I mean, it's this beautiful old building, you know, with a upstairs area,
 homemade area, and then, you know, Greenville here is in an old World War II era warehouse that
 was all boarded up and, you know, just this old kind of airplane hanger looking building. And then
 in Charleston, we're the tallest rooftop bar and restaurant and all of Charleston on King Street
 we're on top of the Hyatt. So we have wraparound views. And so I always just say, let's find the best
 location possible. Then you kind of make it look however you need to and then we figure out how many
 taps we can get in there. And so that's hard to franchise, you know, put it in a box. And so there
 are ways to do it. There's lots of franchises to do a great job. And you can still locally
 owned and operated. So I think spoken like a true craft, you know, like everything about you is like
 the true crafts with the true craft beer guy, like the mayor of craft beer, which is now your
 official title for me. But that's why it's hard because, you know, no true someone that appreciates
 the art of the beer and the art of the business. It makes it really hard to cookie because there's
 something that there's, you know, cookie cutter that's franchise, you know, and I think that goes
 against like all I imagine now getting to know you better. And, you know, kind of all of your,
 yeah, you want to have a system of process and technology and you appreciate all that. But the
 art of it all is kind of hard to duplicate because you go to a different market. There's different
 settings or different things or different people. There's different local breweries. So yeah,
 you know, all that makes it hard to duplicate. Yeah, I mean, we're, I think there's a path to
 get there and you dedicate, you know, a large portion of your taps to local and then maybe the
 rest are regional and you can still stay craft. But so they're working through that now. I mean,
 I think you get to a certain spot and you do have to have some things in place to make sure that
 the quality is there, that the repetition and the the standard that we create for the brand is
 duplicated correctly. So, but and I do actually get to finally open a brewery too. So I can't,
 I'm finally going to, I found partners and a good brewer here locally. So we get to finally,
 get to finally come and scratch that itch and we have a name be a part of it. Yes, it's a double
 stamp brewery. It's going to be on Lauren's Road close to downtown. But it's a unique space with
 a half acre private park and a home team barbecue is going to be there. We're going to have 250 parking
 spots. It's it's really going to be a pretty epic outdoor location. There's an adventure park
 zip line. Well, actually more of a ropes course that's going in there by the other side of the
 swamp rabbit trail behind East Washington Street. How wide a distribution do you want for the beer
 itself? Zero. Okay, zero hole. Yeah, we're just going to have a tap room and and and do that. So
 the the goal with that was it's location. If if a developer comes to you with an amazing location,
 it's hard hard to turn down and I feel like Greenville can use a few more outdoor spaces.
 There's obviously some great ones. Birds fly south does a fantastic job. And just wanting to be
 more involved in the craft beer scene here in Greenville. I mean, poor tap rooms supported a lot
 of local breweries throughout the last four years. And now I want to have an opportunity to also
 join that that side of the team, so to speak. As we close out any advice for whether someone
 listening is in the craft business or the beer business or just an entrepreneur in general.
 I mean, you kind of have a lot of experience. You enjoy helping people. Any like
 I imagine we can have a podcast just about that in full, but any two again. Yeah, I know. We
 can do that. We can have a little ongoing segment here. I'm still interested in our we're
 going to save a secret. You know, Nate and I are talking about he's got some good ideas and I
 want to execute them, but we'll come back to that. But any advice for entrepreneurs out there
 that in general, like any like words of wisdom, like that's a tough question. That's a big question.
 What's the biggest thing you've learned, you know, like our couple of the biggest things, like
 I think for me when I was thinking about starting a business, it's kind of a relentless pursuit
 of finding things that are easy to sell and finding a way to sell it in a unique way.
 I think those are some of the best ideas out there. I mean, just very simple things and it's like,
 well, why don't I think of that way to sell it or that way to promote it? And so I think if you
 can find something, you know, I'm not an inventor and a creator. So some people are
 can find, you know, niches in a market where they are programmers and coders and they are able
 to create an app or a website or something that that fills, you know, a really unique niche. However,
 I think today, I mean, there's a lot of creators out there. And so rather than trying to just
 beat everybody at creating something, maybe take that, like we did with beer and wine and say,
 how can we make this more approachable? That, you know, all these unique styles of beer, you know,
 it's like 65 plus styles. How do we educate people on that? And it's, well, we have to give them
 variety and selection. So the technology allows that to happen. So I think, you know, you can say that
 the typical find something you love and go do it. That doesn't always pay the bills, unfortunately.
 I definitely think you should do something you love, but it might not be your career, unfortunately.
 So I think find something that is easy to sell and find a new way to sell it.
 I love it. Well, the mayor of craft.
 Nate Comford. I'll take it. I love it. I was worse. I was worse.
 That we have found the title of the podcast. Ryan sits with the mayor of craft.
 Nate Comford. But Nate, I really appreciate you coming on. I look forward to, you know,
 developing our relationship and helping each other down the road. And I know people will find
 the story fascinating. And, you know, I love just learning about other people's kind of
 entrepreneurial journey. So I know that people will enjoy it. And I thank you for coming on, brother.
 Yeah. Thank you for having me. That's fun. All right, guys. This is Ryan Offer,
 the host of the Radical Company podcast. You can learn more about poor taproom online at
 poortaproom.com. Look up Nate Comford on LinkedIn, other channels, anything else, Nate,
 where they can find you that you'd mention. Good place. LinkedIn or LinkedIn is the best. Yeah.
 So look up Nate on LinkedIn. And you can find us at Radical.com,
 company online and at Radical underscore results on Instagram. Thank you so much. We'll see you next time.